Practice technique

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Practice technique

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Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

Practice technique

I've been having problems with a certain passage in Panaderos Flamencos. It's a first position A scale, starting at the C# on the 2nd string (2nd fret, 2nd string), going up to the A on the E string, (fifth fret, 1st string), and then going way back down to the sixth string and ending up on the A. Really just a big scale back and forth. But I've been having such problems!

One of my partners in music, Arturo, shared with me a practice technique. He diagnosed my problem of basic unfamiliarity with the motions, especially as they lined up with the rhythm. What does that mean? I knew the scale back and forth; I've been practicing this lick for 6 months. But I didn't have a true knowledge of the downbeats. I would play this long, sixtheenth-note scale, but it wouldn't sound good and I would get lost. I would often flub the first note on the fourth string, in a string crossing situation.

So the most obvious problem was I would mess up the scale.

The next layer showed that my downbeats did not connect with the correct downbeats--I was wandering.
Also, there was a spot--usually when my a or middle finger had to reach up while going from the third string to the fourth string--where things would fall apart.

The solution was to break it up into beats and match it up with the rhythm. I would play the first group of sixteenth notes, ta ka ta ka ta, rest, ta ka ta ka ta, rest, ta ka ta ka ta, rest... then move on to the second group.. ta ka ta ka ta, rest, ta ka ta ka ta, rest, so on and so forth.

Eventually it was shown that the fifth beat was my sticking point. So I paid especial attention there, over and over ta ka ta ka ta, just that one beat. I could feel my fingers start to get in line... they had been confused in this long lick.. by the time they got to this part of it, they were lost. Add that to the string crossing challenge and that's why I couldn't get past it.

The sixth beat was similiar and I had to work on that a lot too.

After isolating individual beats, they would be strung togther: ta ka ta ka ta ka ta ka ta, ta ka ta ka ta ka ta ka ta, etc. in twos, threes, and finally the whole lick.

After about 15 minutes of this and coaching from Arturo, he said, "play the whole thing!" and amazingly, the whole lick came out smooth and sharp.

I'll need probably a few days of special treatment to get everything ironed out, to re-program myself. After messing it up so many times, of course, you program your fingers to mess up. They become very well trained and messing up. This kind of intensive training can help change. Merely because breaking it down to beats means getting it to a unit you can deal with. If you can deal with it, then you can start programming yourself to succeed.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 21 2003 22:50:34

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Practice technique (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

When I learn a new piece I like to see it in notation whenever possible. Of course that is not always possible but it is my ideal. I like to see exactly what the music notation is, then begin to analyze it. What right hand and left hand fingers should be used at any particular part of the piece?

I find that analysis of this type to be very important. It helps to learn something “correctly” the first time through, before you have to “unlearn it”! Things I look out for are “crossing points” for the right hand (which finger to use on which string), and anchor points for the left hand , that is should I be in a chord position before a picado, rasgueado, arpeggio, etc. begins? Sometimes an anchor point (one finger of the left hand) will be of great assistance.

I feel it is very important to study in this fashion at the very beginning of learning any new piece. After not playing something for several years even though I can still play it I will analyze the fingering to be sure there is not a better way. You never know – what seems like the “perfect fingering” today may be improved upon at a later time.

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Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 22 2003 15:40:31

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Practice technique (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Tom,
do you always start with a particular finger while playing a scale passage, or do you choose which one would make for an easier run?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 22 2003 16:19:04

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Practice technique (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

You always attempt to use the fingering that lends itself to "where you are". Otherwise you can have a delay in thinking (which you don't do) and getting the "message" to your fingers.

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Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 22 2003 18:21:37

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Practice technique (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

I agree with Tom, flamenco is cunningly designed so that a finger slips onto the next note. As long as you keep one back as a spare

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 23 2003 10:24:11

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: Practice technique (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thomas Whiteley

When I learn a new piece I like to see it in notation whenever possible. ..<SNIP>

Tom, that was a great post. Excellent advice.

Jon

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 24 2003 12:46:39

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: Practice technique (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria
The solution was to break it up into beats and match it up with the rhythm. I would play the first group of sixteenth notes, ta ka ta ka ta, rest, ta ka ta ka ta, rest, ta ka ta ka ta, rest... then move on to the second group.. ta ka ta ka ta, rest, ta ka ta ka ta, rest, so on and so forth.

Miguel

This sounds a bit like Scott Tenant's tips for long scale runs. He recommends adding accents at the start of every natural grouping of notes, so that the scale is broken down into more manageable chunks mentally, then removing these accents later. For example, intead of seeing a whole bar of sixteenth notes as dah-dah-dah-dah etc, you could add accents at the star of every beat while you practice it: DAH-dah-dah-da-DAH-dah-dah-dah...etc. Depending on the music, it may be benefical to add the accents in groups of sixes or whatever.

I found this to be very useful with some of PDL's runs I'm working on.

Cheers

Jon

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 24 2003 12:55:23

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Practice technique (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Jon,
it is similiar. When you look at this technique, it's easy to think they understand it and they don't need it. But it's extremely useful. At the beginning, at least, people just don't have the ability to correctly play long scale runs. They think they understand it but they don't. This technique gives you learn it by breaking it down. I'm going to post examples later.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 24 2003 14:16:34