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Romanza

 

Posts: 296
Joined: Oct. 24 2005
 

How to use an hour? 
Hi all - I know there have been questions about beginner's practice before but this questions is quite specific.

I have decided that from now on I will devote at least an hour per day to flamenco and two if possible (weekdays). I know this doesn't sound like much, but at the moment I do half an hour at most and some days not any and unsurprisingly I'm not making much progress. Realistically I could only do 3 hours a day on weekdays and that's without eating!

I know I am not using my time effectively - at the moment I usually start with a basic solea from Graf-Martinez as it's about the only thing I can play properly. Then I play around with some sevillanas from Mel Bay's book, and a few random things such as study in C, a bit of tremolo perhaps. I do practice scales but find them so difficult and boring! I actually find it easier to play a simple piece.

I know there is no avoiding the scales, so my q is this - how should I organise my hour. Half an hour scales, then focus on 1 palos eg solea. Or just an hour of scales?? (Shudder!). How much time should a beginner spend on scales?

Actually my arpeggios aren't bad, but I still find chord changes difficult (except for easy chords) - are there any good practices for this?

Thanks guys
Romanza
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 20 2006 10:24:19
 
duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: How to use an hour? (in reply to Romanza) 
i think it´s more important to DO what you set out to do during that hour.
if you go for arpeggio do only ONE or TWO figure.

Just as an example.

5 min of. then 5min of REST! Repeat4times (20min)
---------0-----------------------------------------0---------------------------------
-------0---------------------------------------------0------------------------------
-----0--------------------------------------------------0----------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0-----------------------------------------------0-----------------------------------------



Rest maybe 2-5min as well.

You learn more if you do what you set out to do, instead of fiddling about for 60min
dsoing falstes,arpeggio,alzapua etc.

Hell 20min is even enough if you focus and just do ONE thing.
in a week you should see progress.

Henrik

PS this is of course easyer said than done..


_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 20 2006 10:51:45
 
Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
 

RE: How to use an hour? (in reply to duende) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: duende
i think it´s more important to DO what you set out to do during that hour.


I think that's great advice. Have a plan, don't doodle. The aim on day one might simply be to work on one pulgar falseta for half an hour, then some rasgueado, for example. Keep the plan simple and achievable. Aim to do
just two or three things max. per practice.

(S.M.A.R.T targets, anyone ?)

Just out of interest, why aren't you simply working through GM's book? The point of a method is that it gives begginers structure, and a plan to work through so that you cover all the techniques and you get an introduction to the main palos, step by step. Eventually you become more wise to what you need to be working on.

IMO a beginner should be spending very little time, if any, on scales.

_____________________________

Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 20 2006 11:02:21
 
Romanza

 

Posts: 296
Joined: Oct. 24 2005
 

RE: How to use an hour? (in reply to Jon Boyes) 
quote:

(S.M.A.R.T targets, anyone ?)
Oh dear, brings back painful memories!

quote:

Just out of interest, why aren't you simply working through GM's book?
Well I am, sort of. I guess my problem is I when I can complete an exercise to a pretty standard level, I try and move on to other things before I've actually mastered them.

But with Graf-Martinez I find that just doing the exercises isn't enough for me to then go and play the more complex pieces in the same book. Which is why I think I need to learn scales perhaps.

Also, I have about 3 different flamenco tutor books and like to dip into all of them as they all have different exercises. One book I bought in Spain has tonnes of scales, whereas Graf-Martinez has none (or a few I can't remember), so that confused me a bit - scales or no!?!?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 20 2006 11:14:55
 
Romanza

 

Posts: 296
Joined: Oct. 24 2005
 

RE: How to use an hour? (in reply to duende) 
Thanks Henrik, I'll bear this in mind. Never thought of resting during practice?! What is the purpose behind that?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 20 2006 11:16:00
 
duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: How to use an hour? (in reply to Romanza) 
hrrm you can hurt your self badly.
Harm the Muscles or the tendons.

BUt you can go on and play for 2-3 years even and then BLAAAM ther goes your hand and you´ll be resting for 6 weeks at the best or stop playing forever at the worst.

SO REST BEFORE DAMAGE!

Heres a classic i´ve seen lots of times.

Rock/pop/jazz musician plays without ear-plugs

Musician get tinitus. Musician getts very expensive "pro" ear plaugs from hospital.
Tinitus getts worse...musician find other careér

now what can we learn from that? I know theis has nothing to do with resting but it just came to my mind.

Henrik

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 20 2006 11:30:35
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: How to use an hour? (in reply to Romanza) 
Yes its better to rest when it starts hurting in the arm.

I played for 7 hours a day some years ago. When it started hurting, I put cold water on the arm for a minute. Than I went on playing, cooling, playing, cooling, playing.. nado. hmm.. Not good. But I dont have any damages. Im completely healthy. I think I had luck.

By the way, I dont think that Im very bad. I think my skill is ..ok...medium. I never practiced with a structured plan. I just worked out falsetas. But I did it seriously. Very slow, every note. Granainas for arpegios. Bulerias for the thumb, Alegrias for more difficult technics. And so on.. That makes the practice interesting. Just choose the right falsetas.
Ah yes. I allways only chose falsetas to practice which were at my level. During the years I started practiceing more difficult ones. But there are still things on which I dont lay my hands at the moment. I think thats important. To know where your level is and not to waste time on practiceing things which are not possible for you for the next longer time.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 20 2006 11:37:10
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: How to use an hour? (in reply to Romanza) 
Hi Romanza,

Perhaps it is wise to separate studying from playing too.
if you study, you reflect on what you are doing, little mistakes, tension, posture etc.

If you are playing, you have to study to NOT reflect on yourself.
Just play.
( ofcource you play than the things you know quite good)

So when you ever have a performance or play for recording, you have learned yourself not reflecting, and play with less tension, because you have learned yourself focus on other things like a beautiful tone, hard and soft playing,
and focus on the moment.

Happy playing!
Peter.

_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 20 2006 12:01:32
 
seanm

 

Posts: 169
Joined: Apr. 5 2005
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: How to use an hour? (in reply to Romanza) 
I also only pratice one hour a day. I have a bit of and advantage (I think) because I did do the 8 hours a day for several years while playing classical s othere is a lot I don't have to do.

That said, all the above advice is perfect! You should not pick up the guitar without know exactly (!) what you are going to practice and for how long. Even record your times in a log and your feelings about the improvement. If you like, record each session and review it at night and use this feedback to plan you next day's practice session.

Also, separating practice and playing is important. Either play though a peice (i.e. perform it) at the beginning of your pratice session to see how it is 'cold'. But be caerful of this because you will tend ot want to start fixing things right away and not follow your planned schedule. Or play at the end to have some fun. I pratice in the morning and then 'play' or perform in the evening to keep them separate.

Finally, try to avioid wasting valuable pratice time memorizing music and try to find time (for me it's on the bus to work or other 'down' times) to visualize and memorize music away from the guitar. Its much much better to do this anyway and it'll make you a very efficient learner.

Sean
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 20 2006 14:31:57
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: How to use an hour? (in reply to Romanza) 
Romanza,
the important thing is to learn how to focus, to concentrate. It is not a skill that is taught or encouraged in the modern world.

You have to "trick" your mind into focusing, sad to say. And the mind, well the mind is smart, it eventually learns the trick and then you have to find another one.

The first I'll give you is visualization. Say you are putting together a LH chord or chord change. Before you do it, look at where the chord will be and imagine, in every detail, where teh fingers are going to go. If the index is on the 1st string, middle on 2nd, fourth on 3rd, then SEE in your mind the movement. Then, do it.

Do this seven times with each change. But don't forget to visualize. It takes a lot of mental energy and your mind will rebel and try to make you think about your job or some annoying person, but it's a trick. If you visualize, you can't be distracted, if you're not distracted, you are putting information straight into your brain.

If you practice like this, you will become very good.

_____________________________

Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/migueldemariaZ


Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 20 2006 14:48:11
 
PacoPaella

Posts: 163
Joined: Nov. 7 2004
 

RE: How to use an hour? (in reply to Romanza) 
The resting part is important!

I got myself the pumping nylon video and book. 95% of the stuff is really solid and convincing and i started working on that. Mostly the picado technique to be honest. However i didnt notice how i did it with mor and more tension in the shoulder, until finally i couldnt move any more. Then again i didnt respect Tennants suggestions regarding the posture! Tried to play it all in the good old folk guitarist/Paco posture. Learned 2 things
1. you must listen to your body. Even while you are mostly focussed on playing something right be it scales or a falsetta allow a little part of your concience to reflect yourself and search for pain and tension. If you have pain, stop.
2. the tension doesnt even HELP your playing. You cannot get faster beyond a certain point unless your fingers and shoulder are really relaxed. and you have no stamina to play on for hours.

bottom line, take the breaks between the sprints serious. i would pay a lot for a new shoulder now.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 20 2006 14:56:03
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: How to use an hour? (in reply to Romanza) 
Hey romanza.
Please dont think too much about all this. Just play much much much. And not fiddeling around. Try to play clear notes. Thats all. Than you will become good feeling and technic. Thats really all. Its not so difficult.

When you got some experience you will find your own exercises or learning ways.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 20 2006 15:02:02
 
John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: How to use an hour? (in reply to Romanza) 
For me an hour is 12 exercises each 5 minutes. I always try to divide those into techniques, rhythms or pieces of songs. For example, if I really need a song down, I play it once a day, write down what doesn't work, those are my excersizes. After a couple of weeks you'll see definite improvement Important is also quiet - no TV while you practise, then an hour can help you a lot.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 20 2006 16:22:04
 
Romanza

 

Posts: 296
Joined: Oct. 24 2005
 

RE: How to use an hour? (in reply to Romanza) 
Some really useful advice here, thanks guys. I feel inspired again!

I've never made a distinction between playing vs practicising as every time I play something I view it as practicising. Perhaps now I'll try to separate the two more.

I like the idea of creating a log of all my practicising and will definitely try that, though I don't want to get too distracted from the task in hand.

Miguel I am intrigued by the visualisation idea too, think my mind is not very disciplined when it comes to practice at the minute. Will see how that works out.

Doitsujin, Juan some good points too. Doitsujin dont worry I know not to spend too much time thinking just want to make sure my efforts aren't being wasted and that I'm going in the right direction.

Many thanks all.

Will report back in a couple of weeks to see how I am getting along - may be useful for other beginners (or 1 year-inners!)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 20 2006 16:39:17
 
seanm

 

Posts: 169
Joined: Apr. 5 2005
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: How to use an hour? (in reply to Romanza) 
If I may, Miquel's visualization recommendation is awesome and often over looked. So I'd like to add to that with a couple of articles that might be helpful. One is an except from a great book

http://users.rcn.com/dante.interport/visualization.html

http://www.egtaguitarforum.org/PDF/visualization.pdf

I find this really empowering since you can 'practice' anywhere you have some time to think and concentrate.

Sean
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 20 2006 17:07:36
 
Francisco

Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA

RE: How to use an hour? (in reply to Romanza) 
quote:

Miguel
your mind will rebel and try to make you think about your job or some annoying person, but it's a trick.

That's my problem exactly. I've contemplated quiting work, not to have more time to practice, but rather simply to get it out of my mind.

Excellent post, Miguel. Not an entirely new concept to me, but one I have to constantly reintroduce myself to.

Sean>>> Thanks for the links.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 20 2006 19:02:51
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