I tube, Youtube, we all tube for...

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Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

I tube, Youtube, we all tube for...

Nobody's posted this montage yet (I think):

Who is playing with PDL at the end, and are they both using negras? Can anybody tell me more about the guitars so I can learn to recognise?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 9:36:11

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Exitao)

Thats Manolo Sanlucar.

I dont know what guitars they're playing, and i dont care.

That is one of my favorite bulerias' of all time. Its from Zyrab.
They are so tight together, wow, i love it...
Those falsettas make my heart pound,, its crazy.
Brilliant..

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 10:09:54

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Exitao)

For a period I was watching Paco's posture and how he rarely looked at his guitar. Then I observed that he glances down regularly but generally keeps his eye on Sanlucar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 10:45:17

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Exitao)

Paco uses a conde
Sanlucar a Ramirez.

Peter

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 15:45:39

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Exitao)

Cool, I have almost that whole song Compadres where they play in Retiro park, but the end was cut, and thats what they showed at the end. Great! That next to last falseta is the one Todd and I played as a duo a while back. Notice Todd the position of that one falseta is in 5th position, not open. That is why I like to learn from videos rather than just by ear.

Paco plays a Conde Negra, and Sanlucar plays a Ramirez. It looks like a good ol 1A classical with a tap plate glued on, but I am not sure. This vid is playback again. On the CD Zyrab, it sounds like it is mainly recorded with a blanca, but not sure about this duet. Thanks for sharing.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 15:53:36

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Exitao)

Great! I dindt saw the bulerias of Paco and Manolo before so long! Oh yes..great!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 18:11:36

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Exitao)

quote:

I dont know what guitars they're playing, and i dont care.

I am sure glad you clarified that for us, but on the other hand, maybe he does.

And the appropriate answer should have been: "I don't know what guitars they are playing, as it isn't important to me".

And notice...no smiley faces.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 19:24:00

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Exitao)

quote:

Sanlucar plays a Ramirez. It looks like a good ol 1A classical with a tap plate glued on

Richard,

That's basically what it is. I owned the 1A negra that member Eddie Lastra purchased in 87. At that time Ramirez didn’t build a negra. They were all custom order at that time. What they did was set a lower neck angle and a flamenco bridge on a regular 1A body.

The one I owned sounded almost identical to Sanlucar’s. The 664 length was a real killer for my old worn out hands though.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 19:31:51

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Patrick)

quote:

And the appropriate answer should have been: "I don't know what guitars they are playing, as it isn't important to me".

Yeah Pat...
But I think Todd was making a statement here (in truth and in fun...hence the smiley faces) that the guitar ingredient (providing it's a "proper" one), doesn't really make any difference to the performance of a top professional.

Hands 95%, Guitar 5%

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 20:09:31

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Exitao)

While the guitar doesn't affect the performance, it does affect the sound.

I am interested in learning to recognise instruments visually as well as wanting to be able to aurally distinguish between a blanca and a negra.
It's also interesting to know what the 'greats' use, equipment-wise. But not because of kit envy. I want to know why they would choose a over b because I know they want specific effects or sounds.

Lately I'm wondering whether one [negra or blanca] guitar might be better suited for solo or guitar centered playing while another might be better suited for accompaniment.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 21:04:25

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Exitao)

quote:

Yeah Pat...
But I think Todd was making a statement here (in truth and in fun...hence the smiley faces) that the guitar ingredient (providing it's a "proper" one), doesn't really make any difference to the performance of a top professional.

Hands 95%, Guitar 5%

Ron,

I understand that was the intent and I agree as well, it's just the lack of diplomacy in the presentation that's a bit grating on the nerves.

Read Exitao's statement just above this one and you will get a different perspective.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 21:16:02

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Exitao)

Patrick:

I know exactly what's bugging you, but the internet has destroyed our communication skills. Teachers are pulling their hair out because children are using emoticons in their English assignments.

We communicate more, faster and farther than ever before, but more poorly...

I saw his smiley face and just left it at that.

You think forums are bad? Try IRC channels where you chat real time with two conversations in the channel and two private chats on top of that...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 21:23:21

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Patrick)

quote:

And notice...no smiley faces.

You may need an eye doctor. Look again.
Notice i didnt edit it either.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 21:26:37

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Exitao)

I think Patrick was trying to tutor us on how to come off nicer without needing smiley faces. He was referring to his edited version of your statement.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 21:31:36

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Exitao)

I really dont care what guitars they play, and i dont
see anything wrong with saying so.

I dont always have time to stare at my post, wondering
if somebody might find the wording offensive, or undiplomatic.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 21:32:16

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Exitao)

I kinda figured that about you so I was happy enough with the smiley face.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 21:42:54

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Exitao)

quote:

I dont always have time to stare at my post, wondering
if somebody might find the wording offensive, or undiplomatic.

Maybe that's why you are always in hot water.

Todd...I'm just trying to get you to think a little before you hit the "OK" butten. Trust me, I am not alone in what I am talking about. This has gone on for many years.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 21:58:36

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Exitao)

quote:

He was referring to his edited version of your statement.

Exactly

Enough said...back to flamenco

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 22:00:13

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Exitao)

Aaaaargh! Dammit, that Ziryab video was great. Real Bulerias feeling with all those stops.

Tooo sad, that its not sync

Hm wasnt that "Peroche" starting at the very end of the video? Liked to see that too!

_____________________________

Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 22:04:20

cneberg

Posts: 257
Joined: Apr. 20 2006
From: Sončno polje pri Večnosti

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Exitao)

The sad thing is, no matter how hard you try, there will always be at least one individual who will feel threatened by the post you make. I guess there's nothing a man can do about it.

Great buleria!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2006 23:06:14

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to cneberg)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cneberg

The sad thing is, no matter how hard you try, there will always be at least one individual who will feel threatened by the post you make. I guess there's nothing a man can do about it.

That's true. Although you usually get some credit for trying.

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Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2006 0:02:47

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Patrick)

I don't have time to quote everyone but just from memory:

Patrick, Todd's statement should have read "I don't know and I don't care because this vid is freakin playback. They dont' have to be using the guitar on the recording you are seeing in their hands." But I said that, in fact thats why I dont' see a need to edit todd's point of view. I am free to make my own statements just like you and Todd. And Todd seemed to foresee what was coming because Exitao's response of "which guitar is better for ...." is in need of the "it's in the hands" type of response we know Todd likes to remind folks about. Hence, he does not "care" what kind of guitar. I don't see a need to jump on Todd with the "this is not the only time and I am not the only one" gang up stuff. I disagree with Todd often. But no need to change how he words his thoughts and feelings. Honesty is always the best, sugar coated or not.

Communication on the internet is a problem because we have to take things at face value sometimes. But Todd's statement "I don't care" I am reading into more because I know the stuff he said in the past, and the mp3 he posted of the Yamaha guitar that sounded like Breams Romanillos etc. I get where he is commin from in other words.

And about Ramirez, yeah I figured it was not a "flamenco" negra literally. Are you sure about 664? My conde is that, the old ramirez of my father was 671, really big, I mean string from bridge to nut, if that is the right way to measure.

Exitao, in general blanca is for accomp, negra good for solo, but it is personal preference, maker, the instrument itself. You have to experiment. Don't judge by the maestros only, try different guitars yourself. And don't try to get a visual/aural idea from playback vids. I really think paco used a different guitar on the CD than the vid, but I have no proof. The point is, that it is a possibility. And there is nothing wrong chatting about it, speculating, admiring the maestros and their equipment choices, etc, but keep in mind Todd's point has a lot of truth. I mean Todd's point I am reading into which is really my point since he never said that.

I love the forums.
Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2006 4:16:05

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Exitao)

Richard,

Let's say we agree to disagree. You know after four or five years of the same old BS, sometimes it doesn't take much to blow. Was his statement minor? Well yes it was, but it's kind of an accumulative affect, if you know what I mean. It's the straw that breaks the camel syndrome. And as you said, you and Todd have a right to your opinions, as do I, which I have stated.

As I said, back to flamenco.

Yes it was 664. As far as I know all the older Ramirez were 664's (or at least most of them). Most of the new ones are 650.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2006 5:24:39

PacoPaella

Posts: 163
Joined: Nov. 7 2004

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Exitao)

I once wanted to start a blind-test where everyone could upload the same (simple) piece of audio and people would have to guess wether its a blanca or negra. My guess is that noone is able to hear the difference really. Anyone up for that?

Pat, i know what you referred to before. After all the time am still trying to figure out wether it happens intentionally or not though

If you frequently have to deal with people who are very focussed on their topic (like bleeding-edge scientists) you have to accept certain limits to their ability to communicate with other human entities, its not neccessarily with evil intent, they just dont spare any energy thinking about how their stuff comes off.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2006 8:51:59

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Exitao, in general blanca is for accomp, negra good for solo, but it is personal preference, maker, the instrument itself.

That waas my guess because of the qualities of the cypress. Of course I'd expect there to be variation among the preferences of the players and specific guitars. But it's nice to know those 'generallys'.

I guess someone needs to tutor me on knowing how to tell if something is 'playback' or not...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2006 13:42:04

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Exitao)

There is no difference between a negra and a blanca. The only difference in sound is how the luthier wants to make it sound.

At least, that's what Sean said!

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Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2006 14:09:42

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Exitao)

Hello, friends! Check out this video. Please don't tell me that there are many guitarists (especially this age) that can play like this.

Best,

G

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2006 20:39:43

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Grisha)

i can name one who could play like that.

His name is G something Grikojivjivtchi sahgrsh geroivtji something im getting to it

Gristjvji Grigory!!!!
I got it!! GRISHA!!!

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2006 20:48:13

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to Grisha)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grisha

Yeah, he did hit some notes there...

No it was very cool. I didnt know the guy before. Damn i have the feeling in flamenco there are so many gorgeous guitarrists i still dont know.

_____________________________

Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2006 21:04:13

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: I tube, Youtube, we all tube for... (in reply to XXX)

gorgeous? Florians pretty hot aint he?

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2006 23:05:26