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Ask me to play "Reflejo de Luna", "Con Garbo y Salero", "a really cool intro I heard once from Vicente", no problem.
Sit me in a class and ask me to accompany, all you'll get is chord strumming. Lots of syncopation, mind you, yet still the most uninspirational crap you'll ever hear. Ask me to play a falsetta, "Duuuh, I dunno", more chords.
A lot of it could be nervousness, somehow I just can't put the technique I have together with the dance accompanyment, though I've been accompanying quite intensly for about two years now.
NO! Only 2 years? Thats nothing.. A singer told me in past.. The first 10 years are very difficult in flamenco.. the 20 after them are a bit more easy..^^
My skills usually dont get better poco a poco. I play allways for a long time on the same level. Than from one day to the next, I get much better. Than the same for a long time.. It took month and years..It could be that you are close to the next step. So dont stop now!
And Im not very reative, too. But when I sit down and work hard and play much stupid ideas. I can construct nice falsetas. Its just damn hard for me. Maybe you have not enough time to play for yourself. You said you work the whole day and after that 3hours playing for dance. If you have a nice dancingteacher, you can construct flseatas in the dancingclass. For me it works best there. If you are complete uncreative, take some falsetas wich you already can play. Than change them and play them in a different palo than the original. For example take a bulerias falseta and put it n tangos. You will get new falsetas AND many ideas for new stuff. A second good way to get ideas is to compose with music in your ear. It must not be flamenco. Just the music you like. Play with it, and you will get some ideas.
If you compose for Solea por bulerias or alegrias.. play a record with compas while composing. For me it works best if the compas alsone is still grooving. So take a good one. Come on...!! You have around a year,..than I need some good compositions of you for our CD.
RE: Major major frustration (in reply to Doitsujin)
You still owe me a tiento falsetta which sounds good at 60 beats per minute, that would be a great help, too...
Thanks for the advice!
Another thing I still don't get, the whole "learning by heart" thing being so horrible. If I have a choreography I'm playing to, eventually I'm just gonna know what happens when, right? Like in our polo when the dancers step forward it's time for escobilla, when they take a step back on 12, it's over. In our tiento the llamada leading to tango is three tacts. I know all that by heart, is that so bad? Maybe I'm missing something or making it more complicated than it is, I just don't get where you draw the line...
Ok I will try to put two falsetas in Gp4 today and tomorrow. Do you know the enrique de melchor encuentro? He played a great tiento falseta. Its good for dance. Mine is a bit free..its better for an entrada.
To the dance acompaniment. How is the spelling of that hard word?? Its good that you know it by heart. You should not count the compas or the beats. If you dont feel it or see it, you wont be able to help the dancers out of mistakes they sometimes do on stage. And the second reason why you should ONLY feel the structure is,..you can give it more liing in your playing. If you allways have to count, you cant improvise good. So, I think you do it exactly right.
John, don't worry, you're doing fine. These things just take time. You already have excellent technical skills and good compas. Doit gave good advice. Another thing you can do is just change major falsetas to minor. You can get a lot of great ideas just by watching the dancers and copying whatever rhythm they choose to emphasize. Maybe the falsetas you know are not suited for dance accomp. Why don't you get that Sabicas Carmen Amaya CD, I bet you could find plenty of material to copy there.
Patience, Juan. Don't give up. I've been playing Flamenco almost 2 years now and I have to admit that I am awful at it. I can just about play 2 short Soleas, a Fandangos De Huelva and a basic folk song. Tremolo is a no-no, and my picado sucks big time. The only thing I'm okay at is pulgar work, which is because I'm used to using my thumb for playing virtually everything (even picado!). Accompanying singers or dancers is completely out of the question at my level. I think you're probably doing okay considering you've only been learning Flamenco a short while, and you're undoubtedly much better than I am. I'm sure if you work hard for a few more years you'll gradually be less and less frustrated.
2 years? don't worry too much. you guys know that flamenco is one of the most difficult art forms. Accompaniment is also another major hurdle. It takes years of working w/ dancers to get it just right. Con tiempo tio, Ivan
Btw. I saw this video about a gitano family that was preparing an international show. The dancers were trying to make a choreography on the falseta's. Not the other way around. While rehearsing there were some changes in the llamada's and accentuation of the rasgueado's but nothing more. The music seemed fixed already.
So be friends with a dance teacher, invite her at home( or him..sorry )
I'm usually pretty confident about what I do, I just had a bad day when I made this thread and wanted to reassure myself that I'm not that guy in denial behind who's back everybody says "Geez, why doesn't he give up?"
Still Luka, if you take the time to write, some elaboration would be nice
Hi John. Im sorry, I have no time at the moment to write down the tientos falsetas... I have a bad day now. **** **** ****!!!! This ****ing ****!!! GGRRRAAAAH!!!
I'm usually pretty confident about what I do, I just had a bad day when I made this thread and wanted to reassure myself that I'm not that guy in denial behind who's back everybody says "Geez, why doesn't he give up?"
Still Luka, if you take the time to write, some elaboration would be nice
Yep, you almost did. I read the edited post
Anyway, I try not to be hostile. I have bad experiences with forums. Actually I've been a member of a very few forums (maybe, two or three). But, as one guy here once said, I started to hate the person I've become on those boards. You know, ego is the biggest poison. I guess, because it's so complex and it's hard to get rid of it (almost imposible). But I think I ain't that bad character here (even if I only reply and don't upload my playing) I don't think I've said anything hostile on this board.
I completely understand your frustration, but this is something you've got to deal by yourself (ego). That's why I said, what I said. Who else are the people who know better how hard is to play flamenco, if not us, who struggle everyday to play the simplest falseta in compas.
About my playing.... I don't play flamenco, but I'm a huge fan of it and I respect those guys very much. I play in a small band, we play a bit of cuban music, some spanish rumbas,.... I play solo guitar, therefore I'm that villain, who mainly plays solos, picado scales, improvises mainly. Anyway, I have never ever in my life proclaimed myself as a flamenco guitarist, so my consious is clear.
I will upload my playing in the future, but it probably won't be flamenco. At least not in the near future, because I'm extremly self-critical, when it comes to flamenco.
I've found nothing up to now at 60 beats per minute which doesn't sound stupid, even the Paco Pena tiento from his "Toques" album is too fast to sound good at that speed. It's like a tiento at the speed of a slow solea...
I'd say my problem here is less my ego, more just wanting to make sure I'm not a complete joke. I've come to grips with the fact that I'm the least knowledgable and people will sometimes laugh at me or be negatively critical. I see this flamenco forum as a chance to get other independant opinions and discuss common frustrations. Also, I really DON'T know if I'm on the right track.
I don't know if English is your first language, but to me what you wrote was the same as writing "Shut up". That without any following is just rude to me, I'd have reacted the same way were it concerning anything else but guitar. Now I know you didn't mean it that way.
I tested a 60bpm tiento with my metronom 60sec ago and ist rr ee a ll y s ll oooo ww..... I will tab you the emnrique de melchor tiento flaseta. Its also a bit stupid if you have to play it such slow. But you can add arpegios and strokes to fill it a bit. I think I played it in past too in a tiento danceclass. It works fine. hmm I have to learn the alphabet of DNA equences and proteinsequences now... But tonight in front of the TV it isnt so boring as now..so I will tab it for you now. I hope you can use it!! Coz I have an exam on monday and cant concentrate at the moment.. I think I didnt learn anything in the last 3 days... DAMN!!
haha It sounds like the same "flamenco-police" exist at your place as at my place. Dancers who think they know all about flamenco and all about how to play the guitar. If you arent their personal friend, you could play as Paco but they would tell other people that you are just a beginner and do many many mistakes.. eeeh.. I hate them. I hope these people didnt forced you to your first post here. Forget them.
P.S. I will learn the alphabets now and tab the tiento this evening.... I dont wanna fail..
At first, very very sorry for this off Topic!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Start OFF TOPIC: But I was forced to do it.. Its like you throw a wood..the dog cant resist..it HAS to bring it back. So I study this mess,.. I cant resist to find the origin of Deniz DNA-Sequence.... sorry..But Im helpless.... By the way the DNA alphabet has more than ATG and C It has a minimum of 15 letters maybe some more which I dont know at the moment.
Ok Deniz you wanted it you get it..hehe ^^ I searched it with BLAST//-Genbank which is in the USA. But EMBL from England and DDBJ from Japan would give the same results. If you can tell me why they would give me exact the same results, I will pay for one packet of strings for you. (^_-) But the answere is not: Coz the sequence is the same. I found a full match in the cDNA clone of Oryza sativa. (=CDNA clone:J033028O18, full insert sequence Oryza sativa, 49 sequence(s))
Its nearely 100% shure that its from the genome of the Oryza sativa (japonica cultivar-group) The more common name is Japanese rice!! Hey where did you get this sequence?? Is that a joke with the japanese rice coz of my name?? WUHAHA ^^ Thats cool Deniz!! With 60% its from a chromosome maybe the 18th of Mus musculus. But I dont think so. But nothing is 100% shure in biology-science..so it could be wrong. But I think Im right..hmmm
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Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Major major frustration (in reply to Doitsujin)
Pretty close. Actually, I think is part of a code for a monkey with 5 butts, but that is just at a glance.
John, don't get down about it man. You don't have to be a dance accompanist to be a good flamenco. Moraito hates accompanying dance, he does not like the structure of it or having no room to improvise. Great flamenco master guitarists are sometimes called "solista" as if it is a bad thing to play good solos pieces or compose. There are those that focus only on cante accomp. It is good to be well versed in all that is flamenco, but those that specialize in dance accompaniment are really dedicated to that mainly. They are not necessarily good composers or even have that special senisativity for cante accompaniment. But that is OK too. Sometimes you come across someone great at it all. So don't force yourself to please EVERY dancer or whatever, it is not so important. It is hard to find what they need exactly, and what they don't really need. That is why it takes experience. Rarely do you find a dancer who says "can you play Reflejo de la Luna, I want to dance to that". But they actually are around. Understand they are not musicians, so comunicating with them can be difficult.
Anyway, for tientos 60 bpm, think about arpeggios. Pick 4 chords you like, ending on A of course, and do 16th note arpegio, then sextuplets on each chord. A bit of swing on the 16ths gives the feel of tientos. Does not matter the arp. pattern, only the rhythm and phrasing matters. Check out Chicuelo's vid of solea for baile. Super slow arpeggios keeps things pretty and moving. Same idea applies to any super slow dance.
I had to do Solea at like 40 bpm. It was like BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR,THREE............. BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR,SIX etc. Painful.
This is supposed to be a monkey...but only with 4 asses!
Sorry John! This is one of the most funny topics ever. Doit, hm good work, although they dont match 100%, but im far away from understanding anything... hmmm, actually im thinking of typing another acgtactgc into google i would be really interested in the code of a 5-assed monkey... maybe you just copy&paste the "ass section" 5 times???!!!
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Ask me to play "Reflejo de Luna", "Con Garbo y Salero", "a really cool intro I heard once from Vicente", no problem.
Sit me in a class and ask me to accompany, all you'll get is chord strumming. Lots of syncopation, mind you, yet still the most uninspirational crap you'll ever hear. Ask me to play a falsetta, "Duuuh, I dunno", more chords.
A lot of it could be nervousness, somehow I just can't put the technique I have together with the dance accompanyment, though I've been accompanying quite intensly for about two years now.
Should I just give up?????
Wow! This thread has really got out of perspective! Should you give up? Well...the answer is simply no... What are you comparing yourself to? PdL, Tomatito, Vincente, Gerardo? These guys are at the top of the Flamenco tree.. They've lived the life, done the stuff, while we were all playing "Space Invaders" to try to detract from boring school lessons... (not me..before my time.. )
So you've discovered Flamenco at a later age than you would have liked to? Technique not so good as younger Spanish hot shots?
If you want to be really sincere to yourself...there are probably dozens of minor Flamenco players in Spain who could play you under the table, technique-wise and knowledge-wise.
You've just got to accept that!!
You've got to ask yourself the question of... Do I really want to know more and more about Flamenco and do the best I can and be sincere to myself? Or.. Do I want to be a hotshot kid that everybody is impressed by and praises and everybody thinks is wonderful and you can walk off stage with your nose in the air after impressing everyone?
Music is music..technique is technique...
If you want to impress folk then get into Formula One Racing...and be great at it! Spray the Champagne into the crowd and enjoy your success...
There are a lot easier ways of impressing folk other than playing Flamenco Guitar.
But if you enjoy just the sound and slowly trying to improve...just for the hell of it...
Then it's a lifelong companion!
When playing ceases to be fun and a personal challenge then, personally.. I'd say...quit....it's doing you no good at all. There are dozens of things out there you could make a success at....
Yes Ricardo, I never thought about that. No I have a new point of view with the acompanimento thing. Thanks! I allways took it tooo serious to play for dance. But maybe coz of that I have a great flexible grooving bulerias compas. More in the direction to Tomatito than Moraito, coz I dont like Moraitos stuff very much.
quote:
Technique not so good as younger Spanish hot shots?.......there are probably dozens of minor Flamenco players in Spain who could play you under the table, technique-wise and knowledge-wise.
In general Im with Rons opinion, but not complete with this one above. Im not against Ron but against the point in general. And I heared it often. I dont like it to say "spanish" hot shots. Hey I know german players who play dozens of the best spanish joug hotshots in spain under the table. Not all are so good. Yes there are most of the best, coz flamenco is mainly a spanish thing. But John doesnt have to fright the hotshots over there. He also can play many of them under the table. With the knowledge.. I think I dont have to know all the details of cante, dance and guitar to become a good player and maybe better than many who have this knowlege. There are over hundred different fandangos de huelvas..Who cares. The journal-writers and many people around the world, especially the spanish allways give the flamenco to much blablabla... Its not so complicated as they all say. As I told in past, if you are born in spain. Maybe just in a plane which flew above spain during the birth...and the people hear that you are from spain.. They all think that you know flamenco...pfffff.... Sorry, but I dont like always hear that flamenco is just a spanish thing. Its not. And if so many people would do flamenco here as there, there would be as many as advanced players in my country as in spain. But this music isnt popular enough here. As rugby or Sumo or tree widethrow or running over glowing ash.
hhuuuh.. sorry I had to tell that..
A monkey with 4 asses??? HAahaha... I will test that!!
Printable Version
) 
But tonight in front of the TV it isnt so boring as now..so I will tab it for you now. I hope you can use it!! Coz I have an exam on monday and cant concentrate at the moment.. I think I didnt learn anything in the last 3 days... 
DAMN!!
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