People who deserve to be smacked

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John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

People who deserve to be smacked

Dorks that can play nothing but rumbas, fandangos and sevillanas who've never accompanied dancers and who try to show guitarists better than them how to improve their timing and make little quips in front of dancers and other percussionists about imperfections of others and during every little break play fast picados half full of legatos without any timing. Geez, I hate people like that.

Just had to get that out.

Later,
John

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2006 15:57:42

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to John O.)

Geez John ! Had a bad experienced today ?

Or are you referring to people on the forum ?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2006 16:16:35

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to koella)

Hehehe, I met somebody new.

It's frustrating staying diplomatic in situations like this, but I have to in order to not look like an ass myself in front of others. The aggression has to go somewhere, so I thought why not to the forum where there are people who understand my frustration

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2006 16:19:02

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to John O.)

John, I'm not sure what I did to offend you, but whatever it was, I'm sorry. I love you man! Forget what I said about peccaries!

Seriously, one time I was at a gig and at the time I only played flamenco tremolo. There was this geeky guy came over and was watching, so we chatted and he was an amateur guitar player. He was talking about Recuerdos del Alhambra, which I didn't know how to play at the time. I said that the tremolo is different, so I played teh first few bars with the pami (the classical tremolo used for this piece). So he said, "yeah that's how it is, a beginner version at least."

It was annoying because I was basically giving this guy a lesson and in return his impulse was to insult my playing! Dork.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2006 16:20:36

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

I hear you.

At least I'm lucky enough to have others there who I think know better. I'm not the best on here obviously, but could you guys imagine someone having to correct my timing on a rumba? I accept being corrected when it's called for, even from a beginner, but not if it's incorrect and alone with the intention of showing off.

Then afterwards he wanted to play the fandango intro and the dancers didn't know where to come in because the timing was all off. The dance teacher looked at me desperately and I looked at her like "You wanted him here, not me."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2006 16:24:36

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to John O.)

uh, that with the dancing teacher is bad. But I can tell you.... most of the dancers cant see the difference in playing of paco de lucia and Ottmar Libert. They only know that Ottmar only plays rumbas. They often just wanna have somebody who strikes some chords. If you play in compas..you can play as bad as you want...often they dont mention it. Thats sad... Only guitarrists can honour really good playing. Treeible reality no?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2006 16:39:23

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

most of the dancers cant see the difference in playing of paco de lucia and Ottmar Libert

Exactly right, and PLD playing isn't called for there either, so I don't do it, therefore he thinks I can't. And unless he just strikes chords, he can't play in compás. I'm sure the dance instructor knows the difference or else he'd be the one accompanying tango, garrotin, farruca, taranto, polo, alegria, buleria...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2006 16:44:57

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to John O.)

i never realy played for dancers. there arent any!

I can play for dancers if i.

-Break up a 6 year relation.
-Quite my job and become a bume. The chance of finding a fulltime job teaching guitar in Gothenburg or Stockholm is 0.

so..

Im bound to never play for dance. never for cante and never play
with another flamenco guitarist.

What would you pick? huh?
ruin your private life. or your music life
i can´t afford to lose any of the two.

just needed to tell someone.

Henrik

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2006 19:32:42

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to duende)

We should really make a special part of the site for complaining, it helps a lot!

I got really damn lucky, actually. I have a full time job but still have the energy to accompany 3 hours three times a week. I met my girlfriend about two and a half years ago and laid all my cards down - she knew who she was getting together with. She actually pushed me to call up a flamenco teacher and get in touch, otherwise I'd never have had the chance to learn to accompany. It's perfect really, since she works evenings often as a make-up artist.

I had a girlfriend who tried to push my guitar out of the way and I just wouldn't accept it eventually and ditched her.

If you're going direction family that's a different story and I don't know either of you personally, but I think if your girlfriend really loves you she'll give you the time you need for your passion...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2006 19:43:29

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to John O.)

Henrik,
On one hand you are lucky that you have a gf who will tolerate you devoting yourself on the guitar, and girls like that are extremely rare. On the other hand, part of you will always regret that you did not take the steps to fulfill your dream of learning flamenco at the source. It is the conundrum of the gilded cage.

You seem like a genuinely nice guy, hardworking, and very accomplished at your art. There are other women in the world than your gf who will recognize and appreciate these qualities.

Don't forget that flamencos who accompany dancers usually get girls. Look at Ricardo.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2006 20:09:05

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

Look at Ricardo

Yeah, Ricardo is the official flamenco pimp in my eyes - I've seen those pics of him with those hot dancers.

It's true too. You don't really even have to be charming. If you spend hours a day with different groups of women, eventually one will come along you like with whom you already have one common interest. This scares my girlfriend to death, needless to say

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2006 20:20:40

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to John O.)

@Henrik: I thought you were a fulltime guitarteacher ??

I'm not complaining ( for the moment

)
I have a wife and two kids ( 9 and 7 ). They all play guitar. Well not as good as I of course

For me that's the perfect excuse. Just pick up your own guitar and let me practise on mine.

Of course there are times we talk to each other

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2006 20:37:22

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to John O.)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2006 22:26:59

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to John O.)

quote:

This scares my girlfriend to death, needless to say

mine to

@Koella. I work as a fulltime guitar teacher. BUt not in a city that has any flamenco in it.
The job i found was at a music school that were looking for a teacher offering a full time job. Most musicteachers have "hour" jobs. If you work like that you don´t get paid when ever theres a school holyday or summer break.

Me. Im a fulltime 100% hired teacher i get 7 weeks holyday in the summer with full pay i have one autumt break for a week with full pay.
I have 2 weeks during christmas (fullpay)
1 week easter
1 week "spring holiday"
and all with full pay.

Job offers like that aren´t that usual. If you want to teach at high school/collage level at witch im qualified to do. you have to work harder. ern a LITTLE more but spend more time yelling at students skipping math class and ****.

In my job i can give a ****e about all students except the fun people with talent.
I work at something we call a "culture school" it´s dance,teatre,music and art.

I constantly on the look out for a job like this in stockholm or gothenburg witch would let accompany dance as much as i like. But untill then..im a loner i guess. or maybe a looney

Back to sunny island liveing now.

cheers

Henrik

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2006 8:26:07

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to John O.)

I'm a full time guitarteacher too Henrik.

I have no job though. I'm doing this all at home.

I have to save money for the holidays, but hey, I can practise all day !

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2006 18:48:28

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to koella)

i would never have private students teaching at my home.
I meen it must be realy hard even in the big citys with a million people living in them.
Where i live it´s like 100.000. I think it would be realy impossible to make a living in a country like Sweden teaching like that. Our citys i general are so small. not enough guitarists. and also the cultural schools get most of the students since they´re so cheep.

Henrik

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2006 9:28:08

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to John O.)

hmm.. here its no problem and only 600.000 people are living here. There are tons of people who wanna learn to play the guitar. Ok we have many big cities in a small area here. 30min aways is Kolon with 1.000.000 and in the other direction Essen with 1.000.000 I think and Dortmund and Duisburg. All over 300.000 people I think. And the farest is just 45min away. And here are hundreds of small villages between the bigger citiey. Each around 30.000-50.000 people. I have some friends who dont do other things than giving lessons and playing small gigs.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2006 11:50:08

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to Doitsujin)

I never trusted myself to take the risk and am damaging mind and body working 8-9 hours and accompanying for 3 hours right afterwards, giving lessons on the weekend. What am I doing wrong?

I'll never give up the dream of someday giving up my day job, whether it'll ever happen is another question...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2006 12:40:08

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to John O.)

Right. Here in Holland it's also no problem. I even have a waitinglist.

Well probably not because I'm good but just TOO CHEAP !

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2006 15:05:16

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to John O.)

Juan de la O.,
There are some books out there about being an independent musician and I'm sure some good ones on being a guitar teacher, getting students, promoting yourself. One in the former category is The Self-Promoting Musician, a great book; in the latter category is Classical Guitar Pedagogy by Anthony Glise. Incidentally Glise taught, I believe, in Germany, and said that unlike in the US, a private guitar teacher is a respected and possibly lucrative position.

If you read up on this stuff you could make a plan and direct your activities this way intead of aimlessly. Given your ability and pleasant nature I'm sure you could make inroads both into gigs and teaching. There is often room for young hungry people to make their own destinies.

This would be a start at least. You aren't going to get anywhere busting your ass in a job that has nothing to do with your aspirations and career goals.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2006 15:09:39

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to John O.)

@Miguel: Do you mean that? Why are music teachers not respected in the States ?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2006 15:56:07

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to John O.)

Koella,
In the United States, music teachers are somewhat respected if they have a masters degree or doctorate (graduate level degrees), and teach at a University. If they teach out of their home or private studio, unless they are at the very highest level and teaching the top professionals, they are usually thought of in a much lesser way.

In general, educators of all sorts in the US are looked down upon. The saying is, "Those who can't, teach." In other words, those who aren't good enough guitar players to make a career in playing thus have to become teachers. But this pretty much extends to any field except perhaps theoretical physics and advancted mathematics! Where this attitude came from, I have no idea, but in the US we show our respect with $.

It's a rather sad state of affairs, but it doesn't look like it's changing anytime soon. Teachers are so important, but we value them so little here.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2006 16:41:38

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to John O.)

I would generally think that most attitudes in Canada reflect those of the US, only slightly more conservatively and I think this is the same.

However, I don't think teachers here are considered failures at other things, it's a valid career choice and they are considered professionals. Yet they are still underpaid and undervalued.

Another difference with music teachers up here is that, in addition to university degrees in music, we have the Royal Conservatory of Music which sets guidelines for pedagogy which are followed by self-employed teachers as well as school programmes. The RCM has an examination system to grade students/musicians and being able to say that you are a grade x(?) at the RCM would allow you to teach up to certain levels.

I wouldn't even try to guess at the general attitudes towards music teachers here as everyone I have known has been fairly supportive of such things.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2006 21:31:34

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to John O.)

Well Exitao, I think things here are pretty much the same as in Canada.
Miguel however has a good point. Also in Holland the euro's dictate who you are.

I know a nice anecdote about that.

I used to play in coverbands a lot. You know, long hair and coming home at a time the neighbour is going to his dayjob.
At the moment I don't play in public, so teaching is my only income. I love to be with wife and children in the weekend.
Seems like people respect me more now, being A TEACHER AND ALL, although the playing was a very lucrative business.

In fact last month the catholic church choir asked me if I was interested to be their director, after I did a little performance in church, accompanying my singing daughter ( 9 years old ).

Can you imagine ? And no this is no joke !

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2006 23:22:24

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to John O.)

BTW Miguel, I've ordered that Spellman book (Selfpromoting Musician)

Looking forward to read it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2006 23:29:13

PacoPaella

Posts: 163
Joined: Nov. 7 2004

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to John O.)

While we are at People who deserve to be smacked, let me add the italian mafiosi who had german midfield Frings banned for the Germany-Italy match (because he defended himself in the previous game Germany-Argentina, when the Argentinians kicked and hit the german players after they lost the game), and all of the italian diving artists. They would all look a lot better on a stage than on a football field.

ah that felt good.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2006 23:43:45

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: People who deserve to be smacked (in reply to John O.)

Koella,
if you tell people you are a musician, they assume that means you are unemployed, unless you specifically also tell them where you play, if you do session work, if you are on tour, etc. People tend to think that way unless they have heard of you.

That book is very good. Also Bob Baker has a book called Guerilla Music Promotion or something. He is of the opinion, and I am too, that the days of major labels being the main avenue for musicians to make a living are over and the internet and cheap home recording has tipped the balance.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 5 2006 1:48:10