Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
|
|
|
Building finger independancy
|
You are logged in as Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic: none
|
|
Login  | |
|
   
DoctorX2k2
Posts: 211
Joined: Jun. 14 2006
From: Quebec City, Canada
|
 RE: Building finger independancy (in reply to DoctorX2k2)
|
|
|
I don't know... I've really been trying... but this finger just doesn't want to flex without the pinky or the middle finger.
I've tried this basic stuff :
moving fingers from 6th to 1st string then back up, one finger moving at a time with the index on 3rd fret, middle on 4th, auricular on 5th and little one on 6th. The thing is, I can easily place each fingers on the 6th string, then my index moves easily to the 5th string, so does the middle one... but this auricular has a really bad time flexing down to 5th if the little finger remains on the 6th string, plus it touches the middle finger and I can't even flex it down from the 2nd to 1st string. So I was thinking there could be some exercise to work this out, especially when I'm away from the guitar, at work for instance.
Thanks again.
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jun. 28 2006 0:51:41
 |
|
Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
|
|
RE: Building finger independancy (in reply to DoctorX2k2)
|
|
|
Deniz,
Ericsson and Charness' research on expert skill development is a must read for anyone with aspirations to play at a high level. Basically the conclusion is that everyone has to spend a fairly standardized time and mental energy to get there. And that expert skill mastery is a cross-disciplinary state.
Here is a teaser:
"When experts exhibit their superior performance in public their behavior looks so effortless and natural that we are tempted to attribute it to special talents. Although a certain amount of knowledge and training seems necessary, the role of acquired skill for the highest levels of achievement has traditionally been minimized. However, when scientists began measuring the experts' supposedly superior powers of speed, memory and intelligence with psychometric tests, no general superiority was found --the demonstrated superiority was domain specific."
[so maybe Grisha's NOT smarter than me? he seems to be, maybe it's just an act!]
"For example, the critical difference between expert musicians differing in the level of attained solo performance concerned the amounts of time they had spent in solitary practice during their music development, which totaled around 10,000 hours by age 20 for the best experts, around 5,000 hours for the least accomplished expert musicians and only 2,000 hours for serious amateur pianists. More generally, the accumulated amount of deliberate practice is closely related to the attained level of performance of many types of experts, such as musicians (Ericsson et al., 1993; Sloboda, et al., 1996), chessplayers (Charness, Krampe & Mayr, 1996) and athletes (Starkes et al., 1996)."
For the best experts:
10,000 / 365 / 4 = 6.85 years with 4 hours of deliberate practice a day
13.7 years with 2 hours
For the least accomplished experts:
=3.4 years with 4 hours a day
6.8 years with 2 hours a day
_____________________________
Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/migueldemariaZ
Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jun. 30 2006 16:40:19
|
|
fevictor
Posts: 377
Joined: Nov. 22 2005
From: Quepos / Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica
|
|
RE: Building finger independancy (in reply to DoctorX2k2)
|
|
|
Doctor, I have a similar problem. Its not too bad, but I want to get rid of the stubborn ring finger also. I noticed this problem when I try doing a G chord by placing my little finger on the string first, then M and A after...it would just take too long for my fingers to get into position. heres what Ive been working on with some success: I place the little finger on the first string, 3rd fret. My A finger on the 2nd string, 3rd fret, and finally my M finger on the 2nd string, 2nd fret. Now i just do picado and work M and A up to the 6th string on their corresponding frets. Having the pinky planted makes this movement a little trickier...which is the point. After about a week I felt no pain at all when I got to the 6th string.
I am also working on left hand rasgeos, and I have to say that so far I´m sold on the idea. My fingers and tendons are sore as hell, which tells me that I´m strengthening the muscles, just like I felt when I learned normal right hand rasgeos.
Hope this helps
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jul. 1 2006 2:32:44
|
|
Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
|
|
RE: Building finger independancy (in reply to XXX)
|
|
|
Deniz,
I agree, that is interesting. If you want to find out, reading this might help:
http://cogprints.org/656/00/innate.htm
Basically Ericsson and Charness have done a lot of reseach on just this topic. The answer, very basically, seems to be that we evolve different mental _strategies and patterns_ that enable us to act more quickly and with much more range. There seems to be a natural progression or hierarchy that occurs over time, but only with _concentrated work_. That is the key, just messing around isn't going to get you there, but focus will.
I think it's just that you need to learn a before you learn b. a and b are prerequisites for creating c. a b and c are prereq for d. And so on, until you have reached z, or whatever, where you have all these patterns at your fingertips.
It kind of sounds new agey almost when I say it like that!
_____________________________
Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/migueldemariaZ
Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jul. 1 2006 15:42:17
|
|
Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
|
|
RE: Building finger independancy (in reply to DoctorX2k2)
|
|
|
I found this very interesting, too.
Investigations of long-term practice effects provide some relevant evidence. Sloboda, Davidson, Howe & Moore (1996; see also Sloboda, 1996) found no significant differences between highly successful young musicians and other children in the amount of practice time they required in order to make a given amount of progress between succesive grades in the British musical board examinations.
Group differences in average progress were no greater than would have been expected from the differences in the amount of time spent practising. Consistent with these results, Hayes (1981; Simonton, 1991: see also Ericsson & Lehmann, 1996; Howe, 1996a; 1996b; in press) found that that all major composers had needed long periods of training.
Hayes (1981) concludes that at least ten years of preparation are necessary. Simonton (1991) considers this an underestimate of the amount of time required. He estimates that, on average, prominent composers produced the first of their compositions to gain a secure place in the classical repertoire between 26 and 31, having begun music lessons around the age of 9 and started composing at around 17. Chess players likewise need at least ten years of sustained preparation to reach international levels of competitiveness (Simon & Chase, 1973); and those who begin in early childhood take even longer (Krogius, 1976). Comparable periods of preparation and training are essential in various other areas, including mathematics (Gustin, 1985), X-ray and medical diagnosis (Patel & Groen, 1991), and sports (Monsaas, 1985; Kalinowski, 1985; see also Ericsson, Krampe & Tesch-Römer, 1993).
_____________________________
Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/migueldemariaZ
Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jul. 1 2006 18:22:22
|
|
DoctorX2k2
Posts: 211
Joined: Jun. 14 2006
From: Quebec City, Canada
|
|
RE: Building finger independancy (in reply to fevictor)
|
|
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: fevictor
Doctor, I have a similar problem. Its not too bad, but I want to get rid of the stubborn ring finger also. I noticed this problem when I try doing a G chord by placing my little finger on the string first, then M and A after...it would just take too long for my fingers to get into position. heres what Ive been working on with some success: I place the little finger on the first string, 3rd fret. My A finger on the 2nd string, 3rd fret, and finally my M finger on the 2nd string, 2nd fret. Now i just do picado and work M and A up to the 6th string on their corresponding frets. Having the pinky planted makes this movement a little trickier...which is the point. After about a week I felt no pain at all when I got to the 6th string.
I am also working on left hand rasgeos, and I have to say that so far I´m sold on the idea. My fingers and tendons are sore as hell, which tells me that I´m strengthening the muscles, just like I felt when I learned normal right hand rasgeos.
Hope this helps
Interesting :) I shall give this a try. Thanks!
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jul. 3 2006 14:59:14
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts
|
|
|
Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET |
6.201172E-02 secs.
|
Printable Version
) 
