Question for Ricaro and other knowledgable accompanyists

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John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

Question for Ricaro and other knowle...

I've finally come across the best way to accompany an exact choreography: I videotape the performance and play along at home until it sits. I'm more concentrated at home and can take it in better - not so nervous and forgetful. In the end after 50 times I'm not sure if I'm playing based on what the dancers do or based on the memorization of the song, but at what point does it really matter if I understand the rhythm and concentrate on matching what the feet are doing?

For example last year I did a farucca and memorized the whole thing through. This year I'm doing it again and didn't memorize it because by now I can play a 4/4 rhythm to any matching footwork and even throw in a falsetta if I feel like it. However a farruca is not a bulería.

On the other hand, in columbianas and tarantos there are extra tacts thrown in all over the place that are nearly impossible to improvise over, I couldn't imagine a guitarist just walking in, sitting down and following along no problem.

So is what I'm doing a stiff way of learning accompanyment which will eventually get me into trouble or should I concentrate more on theory? Is it something one can just have down after a lot of experience or should I buy a book? I see the dance teachers with choreography jotted down on paper all the time, they memorize too, don't they?

I really couldn't imagine a gypsy art being something someone needs to study out of a book if the chance for practical experience is there...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2006 13:10:34

Ricardo

Posts: 14884
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Question for Ricaro and other kn... (in reply to John O.)

Experience will make it easier for you. I worked with dancers that gave me videos before. Usually I would fall asleep in front of the TV. I found it much quicker studying the dance in person, making mistakes and fixing them a long the way until I knew what the dancer needed or did not need. Eventually you don't need to memorize, you understand the basic structure and are very watchfull at certain moments, relaxed and improvising during others.

I have seen dancers write their choreography on paper, but really good dancers that understand flamenco well, don't do that. I have seen at least one guitarist write things down, and singers write letras on their hand. One gypsy I know typed out the letras really big on a piece of paper and used a music stand!

But he was not comfortable doing that. If you have to do that, than it is because the dancer is relying on a specific music that was meant for other musicians. Flamenco should be flexible enough so ANY guitarist or singer who knows what they are doing, can just do their thing and watch for cues.

I look at the tablao gigs as a time to "rehearse" and try out new things in front of an audience. With that focus, I learn very quick. But usually what happens to me is a big theatre show comes up, every dancers wants me to memorize a new special choreography, sometimes I also work with new people I never met before, and all in just a couple days. Very stressfull. The only thing I ever wrote down though was the set list for the show. One time I did not and I had A LOT of stuff on my mind, and started the intro for the wrong number.

Anyway, just do whatever you feel you have to do the best job you can. People learn choreography in spain, from some maestra that has HER musicians she works with all the time. But really, it is meant to just come together with no rehearsal or memorization on the musicians part.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2006 16:08:13

ivan

Posts: 73
Joined: Oct. 6 2005

RE: Question for Ricaro and other kn... (in reply to Ricardo)

yes. there is no subsitute like working w/ a dancer in person. you can take some stuff home, like learning the falsetas. but to really understand accompaniment, you have to pay your dues and work w/ dancers..make mistakes, etc...but it is really the only way. Learning through video taped performances, will just make it mechanical and will not account for last second mistakes that can occur during a concert. For example, the dancer may speed up or you may speed up. He may trip a little bit, etc.. if you rely on videos, you will freeze when a simple mistake may occur.
Ivan

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2006 0:31:37

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Question for Ricaro and other kn... (in reply to John O.)

Thanks for your answers, I thought as much. I'm playing at an academy with beginners who are all learning the dance for the first time (as well as I), any improvisation would confuse them. When they're practising dance technique I can go off track and goof around a bit, but what we will be performing has to be dead on.

With mistakes I can just about always play muted and quickly recognize by some golpes or the position of the dancers where we are, even with the 12/4 rhythms, but in any case it's pretty much missing all the improvisation and excitement of your usual flamenco session. Considering this is only my second year accompanying at all, though, it could be just the right thing for me at my level.

What I'd really like to do is meet somebody with a bit of experience that wants to dance for fun. Here I'm stuck between absolute beginners and professionals whom I'd only frustrate.

Would it be a bad idea to pay a professional teacher for teaching me to accompany her/him?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2006 6:26:29

ivan

Posts: 73
Joined: Oct. 6 2005

RE: Question for Ricaro and other kn... (in reply to John O.)

John,
working w/ a professional dancer is not a bad idea but remember..before you do that, make sure that whatever dance you are rehearsing w/ him, you know the form well. I think it is great that you are working w/ beginning dancers. This will give you much practice but also remember that at this point, keep the accompaniment simple!!! just to the compas and chords. Accompaniment takes years of work. Sounds like you are on the right path.
Ivan

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2006 14:03:43

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Question for Ricaro and other kn... (in reply to John O.)

Johno,
I don't really accompany, but I have observed the dynamic at least here in town. From what I can tell, the professional dancers are fairly supportive of bringing up a guitarist, because there is a shortage of guitarists who can accompany. So it just might be worth their while to invest a little time with you, and their return would then having a "trained" guitarist they can call upon. I'm not saying they are going to teach someone from the ground up, but with your formidable guitar skills, good compas, and good attitude, I would be surprised if you don't find some you can work with a little.

I attended a workshop with Marija Temo, and it was called "Flamenco Communication." Basically she was just saying what Ricardo said, which is you want to get to a level where flamenco can be spontaneous, everyone knows his/her role, and you just jam. Kind of like two guitarists can get together, say "Entre Dos Aguas?" and just jam for 10 minutes! But it seems to me at least, that some of this experience you just have to go and get...

Don't be too shy, John. In my opinion, you should just get out there.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2006 18:03:18