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So I have been browsing the "Cante Accompaniment" thread in the Audio Upload section for the past few months.
I would like to learn how to accompany but cannot find any resources on how to get started. It seems like a great mystery. I have watched a few cante accompaniment vids on YT but those are just people playing along and not really explaining what they are upto.
For all the members who regularly upload to that thread do you have any advice on how I can start my journey?
I am unable to go to Spain at the moment and I'd like to start out from the comfort of my own home so please keep that in mind when offering sugestions. Thanks.
Posts: 16241
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: How to start cante accompaniment (in reply to sol512)
Well, maybe start with Alegrías as the letras tend to be only two chords and you listen for the see-saw and simply keep time correctly (C to C, first compás, then each compás you change on 10 to G7, then next one to C, etc., until the full verse and colatilla finish, usually 7+4 compás structure). Play along with this:
1:06 and 3:25, are standard. The letra at 4:41 is more typical to start but an octave lower, so Camaron personalized this by doing it high and last in sequence. All use the same 2 chords basically:
We don't have many examples but you need to play a long with recordings as a baseline. Fandango coplas are fixed so try those next. 6 phrases
1. C 2. F 3. C 4. G7 5. C 6. F to E.
I say do Fandango de huelva first as the rhythm can guide you assuming you can keep time with a basic metronome and such. Well, if that is an issue, work on that first! Next you need to know how to find the correct pitch and put your capo so use videos as a guide (like you can see the guitarists position etc.). As you train your ear then maybe explore just audio recordings the same way. Noticing the 6 line structure of the Alegrías and the Fandango Copla are quite similar (the same really the last musical line split in two) it is likely Alegrías evolved from an extinct "Fandangos de Cadiz". Anyway these formulaic songs are a good starting place to prepare for the more challenging Soleá family where that verse/chord structure may change in the moment, rather than remain fixed.
RE: How to start cante accompaniment (in reply to sol512)
The main thing is to just start! And make lots of mistakes. Sounds like at home you won't be annoying an actual singer- just recordings. Upload your take in the Cante Accompaniment thread for feedback.
All you need to begin is to have solid compas and know a few chords, some basic marcaje, cierre and remates. Be able to keep unshakable compas and hit different chords with no problem.
Forget about trying to find a resource to give you a set of general rules or a blue print. Begin by doing - do not begin by understanding. Begin by studying one thing in particular. I recommend choosing a cante performance that you love and study it in depth. The *cante melody*, and the tonos chosen in response. You can use free online machine learning services to take the guitar off any recording you like, and then record yourself.
Then from wherever you start, gradually expand to study other styles of the same palo, other singers, other palos etc... An understanding of flamenco aesthetic and what is 'correct' will slowly begin to emerge; beyond a lifetime's work. E.g. Find out the style you've studied and find other versions of the same. Maybe same singer but a different performance or guitarist, or another singer. Then the cante variations and possible tonos choices begin to make sense.
Ricardo, Norman, Romerito, Estela and a few others have given us many pearls of knowledge on the foro. But without having one's own experience to relate to, they won't mean anything or even be recognised. Many times I have been studying a palo, or style, or cantaor/cantaora and used the foro search function and found valuable answers.
Also of course Norman's great website https://canteytoque.es/ Solea, Seguiriyas, Buleria por solea
If you need more guidance Ricardo does one to one online lessons. Pituquete has some videos you might find helpful. I have also checked out his cante accompaniment course in his paid 'peña' subscription, I found it useful.
Also José Ignacio Franco has some accompaniment class demos on his channel
RE: How to start cante accompaniment (in reply to sol512)
Thanks for the responses,. I have spent most of my time learning falsetas and some basic compas, but mainly falsetas.
I would prefer to start with Solea as that is a palo I enjoy listening to.
Agreed that the doing is important, but to use an analogy, before one can write a word they need to understand the alphabet.
If there is no resource that explains the alphabet its a bit beyond me how one is expected to start writing words.
Obviously this is a learnable system and it is taught, so it must exist.
I will try to find some resources that explain what chords I should strum and at what point in the solea cante I change to what chord, and then from there maybe I can be brave to upload to the foro.
Its a pity there are no didactic videos or learning systems that break this down in easily digestible steps.
Posts: 4782
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: How to start cante accompaniment (in reply to sol512)
quote:
ORIGINAL: sol512
what chords I should strum and at what point in the solea cante I change to what chord,
I hate to give you the bad news, but you will quickly see it is not going to work, like at all!
There are resources and "courses" etc. But specifically with Cante, it does not work the way you want it to work. With some Palos more so than others. You could probably somehow manage Tangos with this approach, but things like Solea. No way. Anybody can learn bunch of chords and the compas. But when it comes to accompanying singers, it is like a different dimension. I learned that the hard way. Even though I am technically OK and also understand compas, when I started to try to accompany to videos etc recently, I quickly realized: nope. I am an absolute Noob and Level ZERO. You can even be perfect at Compas, perfect Technique, yet completely and utterly fail at accompaying cante, if you never did it and always just focused on solo. If you are not surrounded by it 24/7 since childhood, the ONLY way for us is:
1) Listening to Cante 10000 times over and over again 2) Even choosing specific singers and stick to them and learn their small different nuances, details, etc. and way of singing and just practice accompanying only them 3) Playing along and repitition again and again and again as orson said
Specially Solea is full of small and important nuances, it is heavy and very difficult. Both for singers and accompanying guitarists. It might look simple with bunch of chords etc. but it is not, trust me. You need to completely forget that approach you mentioned. It is not gonne work. You will either learn the hard way. Or the harder way. (no easy way).
It is not like learning language. It is more like swimming. You can look at pictures and videos and courses how to swim, move your hands and feet and whatever. But as soon as you enter the water, it is a different story. You just have to swim and swim and swim.
Of course, learning basic compas and chords and technique is a necessity beforehand. If you don't have good compas (not with singers, just guitar), then do that first of course and be solid at it. But it is just part of the whole thing when it comes to cante.
Posts: 16241
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: How to start cante accompaniment (in reply to Arash)
the guy above is good but not sure how much a beginner could learn from it. In case it is helpful it is important to understand the letra types he shows.
The first is Alcala standard 4 line verse. The 4 line poems are considered "initiate" cantes and normally go first in sequence ahead of the 3 line styles. the 4 lines are tied to melodies we call "tercios" that attach to the 8 syllables. The guitarist has to listen for the repeat of the tercios or single delivery etc., and it gets tricky compared to Alegria or Fandango coplas that are quite fixed in structure by comparison. In this guys version he repeats the 3rd and 4th line (called Cambio, meaning change like key change to C major there, and conclusion back to E) with a slight harmonic variation, using D7 to G7 then to C the second time only. That D7 he is showing as an option, not a requirement. It is typical to have an ABABCDCD type structure for these 4 line poems, but there are no rules about it.
The second (13:50) is Andonda associatded with Triana (Triana grande I have heard this called), and though the melody climbs higher up than the first style, the chord and structure is the exact same for the guitar accompaniment. At 14:30 is a 3 line structure called "bulería corta", and even though the speed is slow, the buleria melody is basically the same one we use very fast. The 3 line structure differs from the previous 4 line styles by omitting what would be the 2nd line only. In this particular melody the A minor chord for the normal first lines is not appropriate (keeping in mind this style when done in buleria often repeats this first line, once to A minor and upon repeat as the guy does here to B7), as he sings the F# instead of an A note target at the end of the verse. We play B7 by tradition (don't experiment with different chords, it is always B or B7). After that the 2nd and 3rd lines function exactly the same as the other styles as "cambio (G7-C) and conclusion (F-E)". Some singer might repeat these both together as in other styles, but when done slow like this it is most often one pass of each line of verse as he demonstrated. That is partly why the moniker "Corta" is applied here verses "larga" which is a different melodic style of buleria.
at 17:38 he does the "macho" as I learned it, usually the third style in a family where the connected lines of verse have a dramatic conclusion to a set of styles. Again 3 lines but the chord structure is a bit switched in the repeat of the first line. Norman has a page dedicated to this style called "Joaquin 3" on his website. Typically it starts in A minor, then back to E7, then as the melody shifts higher with the repeat of the first line lyric, we conclude as normal E7-Am. It attaches to the Cambo/conclusion, and again those last two lines may repeat if the singer chooses or not.
RE: How to start cante accompaniment (in reply to sol512)
quote:
ORIGINAL: sol512
Agreed that the doing is important, but to use an analogy, before one can write a word they need to understand the alphabet.
If there is no resource that explains the alphabet its a bit beyond me how one is expected to start writing words.
Obviously this is a learnable system and it is taught, so it must exist.
Forget about trying to find a system, it doesn't exist. It is not taught, it is acquired though exposure and practice. The best explanation you can get is the top of Norman's Solea page, and posts like Ricardo's above. But none of that will help you start. To start you must listen, then try and fail, listen again, try again, get feedback, repeat...
To your analogy- this is like natural language acquisition, which happens without the alphabet, before reading and writing, before understanding grammar. When a baby first says 'mama' it understands nothing about the alphabet etc.. And we are cante babies! We try to speak first and this affords understanding later.
And on a practical note: Start with Solea Alcala Joaquín el de la Paula 1. Juan Talega 1962 recording. You can find it on Norman's website. Listen to the *cante melody* If you like there is the Carol Whitney article/transcription and also Steelhead's article/transcription, for after the fact analysis. It has has been discussed on the foro, there are several accompaniment attempts by foro members. There is a guitarless version uploaded to the foro with a palmas track added. Use the foro search function to find all.
For feedback, upload your attempt to the accompaniment thread by this time next week.
Whitney, Carol. 1976 . "Structure and Variation in Flamemo Song and its Guitar Accompaniment." Guitar Review 41:10-18.
Peter L. Manuel 2006 “Flamenco in Focus: An Analysis of a Performance of Soleares.” In Analytical Studies in World Music, edited by Michael Tenzer. New York: Oxford University Press, 2006, pp. 92-119.
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We try to speak first and this affords understanding later. 
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