RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE

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[Poll]

IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE

JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP 3 GUITARISTS TODAY

10% (3)

JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP 10 GUITARISTS TODAY

10% (3)

JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP 50 GUITARISTS TODAY

27% (8)

JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP 100 GUITARISTS TODAY

6% (2)

JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP 300 GUITARISTS TODAY

13% (4)

JUAN MARTIN is somewhere after 500

31% (9)

Total Votes : 29

(last vote on : Apr. 25 2006 18:01:44)

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Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to koella)

anyone that is not voting is acctualy voting in a way, whatever the outcome thats what they voted for :-)

unless they are satisfied with the outcome :-)

just a litlle tought

I know voting is stupid, but it there was a vote about flamenco guitarists, id prefer to see it done by flamenco guitarists.

Koella no 6 months ? !!! Security ..Security!! who let u in here

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2006 21:14:25

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)

Well I don't know juan or his books. I saw the rumba. I think Paco Pena does it better.
Whatever that's worth.
But hey. I didn't pass the six months on the forum. So I'm not voting

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2006 21:19:17

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to tluczek)

I've been following this thread and my feelings are this...
If Juan Martin had been less successful and less well known, then there would be no problem.
I tend to view Juan more as a "variety show" performer.
His stuff is rather dated now as his dress and style, but he does play genuine Flamenco guitar IMO, although personally I've never been into his stuff.
Actually the same critisizm could be made of Paco Peña now...
Some say the guitar style has changed...others say that the only thing that has changed is the current fashion.
So who knows?
Juan is very TV "friendly", so he gets called a lot by programme makers.
He doesn't go onstage with a pair of jeans and a tee shirt, but is formally well dressed and well groomed.. usually better than the members of the audience, which gives him an immediate advantage IMO, for an average "entertainment" audience likes that sort of stuff and immediately feel they are in the presence of a great Maestro...
He has an amazingly "thick" Spanish accent when speaking English... probably the strongest accent I've ever heard...on a par with Raymond Blanc the famous French chef.
All this adds to the audience experience.
On the guitar, he's a competent guy...nothing particularly jaw dropping technique wise, but he obviously puts on a very enjoyable evening for the folk who have paid their money and come out to see him.
So what's wrong with that?
He's obviously not in the same league technically as the players Florian listed.
But he's probably earning more than a lot of them!

Is that his fault?

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2006 21:24:53

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)

Which reminds me of that old Zappa album: "we're only in it for the money !"

Only joking Ron !

LIke I said I know nothing about him

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2006 21:43:08

Guest

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to tluczek)

quote:

you shouldn't call his records drink coasters

sorry tluczek, your right, i was exagerating. Like i said his method book was excellent when i started flamenco, i should not have been disrespectful (it was only ment to be a joke).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2006 22:33:37

tluczek

Posts: 61
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Poland

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to koella)

it was just a joke :) These were old videos of Grisha with pullovers (sweaters). I hope Grisha won't be mad with me for that comment ;)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2006 10:40:08

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to tluczek)

Well, I have to follow my Russian heritage, right? And it was really cold in that TV studio. Who's mad?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2006 16:13:16

Guest

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)

Hey florian, what does this poll tell you so far? or is it still early days...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2006 10:57:58

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Guest)

Cant everybody see the polls results ?

i tought everyone can see it

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2006 11:13:03

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian
If i can convince 1 single member to buy Emilios Maya cd instead of Juan Martins then yes i feel I have really helped flamenco.

Hey Florian,

I found your quote, and I agree. Emilio, and Harold and me, would love it if every member here bought a copy of Emilio's album. How many sale would that be ? Perhaps we should make it compulsory

Kate

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2006 11:45:26

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)

I just looked at the poll. Perhaps it should say flamenco guitarists. Though I dont think I can name 100 flamenco guitarists never mind 500.

Kate

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2006 11:49:09

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Kate)

lol, well i hope they do too, nothing would make me happyer, but its not because me or you tell em too because the cd is great.

is up there with some of the best solo guitar albums

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2006 11:50:56

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)

Me too there's 1020 registered members here. Quite amazing how this forum has grown.

Kate

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2006 11:53:38

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Kate)

u know perhaps if i have your permission to upload some samples memebers wont have to take our word for it and decide for themselfs.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2006 11:54:55

leo

Posts: 61
Joined: Aug. 2 2005

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)

kate convince Emilio to make a dvd like the encuentro series
La guitarra flamenca de Emilio Maya

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2006 15:45:08

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)

The encuentro series have great guitarrists. It would be very very hard for Emilio to impress after Gerardo Nunez, I think. Emilio is a great player, I could imagine that he has great stuff for a video. But I think they only take bigger names of today, or good friends of the producers.
I think if Paco Serrano would do the same video as they did, today..it would be hard.
So if they produce a new video, it will be an enormous great player with crazy inventions.
But there is a chance. They took some guitarrists who are just friends or cloth to a special place. And there is a percussion player who allways wants to be on the videos but isnt outstanding.. Just a good friend of the people who produce the videos. Finally he accompanied a very good guitarrist on one of the videos and the great guitarrist said that he plays not good, but he can acomp. him coz he is the house-percussionist.
I dont wanna say names but you can see in the video which I mean, that the guitarrist allways looks at the percussionist and allways gives him hints when he has to start and where a llamada is, as the percussionist would be a child with two left hands. So the videos are great, but behind the camera is much crap going on, I heared. Trust me.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2006 17:38:02

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Doitsujin)

Doitsujin,
even though you are "right" in my opinion, you are being WAY to critical of the series. I know one guy involved, he is an excellent guitarist, and the project he admitted is a big pain, very difficult, transcribing and translating, no money made in the long run, and they do it because of their love of the art. At the time he told me this, it was before Nunez vid. He said he did not want to do anymore, unless Nunez agreed to do it, which he did NOT want to at that time. I told him if they could convince him, they must do it on DVD.

I don't see any need to complain about any of the vids, they are not perfect at all. But imagine if we had NONE of them? The percussion is just a reference for the student, at least he is not rushing or dragging the time. He seemed "scared" of Nunez and Tomatito. In Spain they have cante competition and the singers often have to use the same guitarist, crappy or not. So, a good singer/guitarist should not have to rely on his own personal accompanist.

Nunez shows us the real stuff, Tomatito too, but no words. I love nunez, he is the top for me, but many don't like him. I have met many that learned from Paco Serrano. And something like the Cante vid was helpful, though not top notch. Techniques are not the end of learning in flamenco. Chicuelo shows stuff that works well for baile, so I could imagine seeing a GOOD accomp for baile teach a vid that is not about playing techniques. Someone like Paco Fernandez for example...

Just some thoughts.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2006 15:48:49

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)

Yes Ricardo, you are right. Im a bit to hard to the videos. But I like them too. I learned a lot from Paco Serrano and at the moment I learn his Zapateado. I like his music, but maybe after Nunez its hard for the most guitarists to impress, I think.
The bad things I heared,..I really only heared it from third persons. I dont know if it really happened or not. The flamencos allways talking a bit more than they should I think.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 25 2006 9:55:19

soulstring69

Posts: 87
Joined: Jan. 26 2006

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)

this is a sad post. the poll is wrong and do not make sence. this post sound like someone wanting to start controversy where none is. you like apple or you like oragne? maybe like bannana? all are good, i like bannana. if you dont like bananna tell me 5 hundred fruit that better. sound like florina dont like bananna so he try to convince anyone to not like it too? this a silly poll. no to disrepect...but this have nothing to gain but trouble.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 25 2006 16:48:40

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to soulstring69)

well first off its Florian

and second i am not in a mood to start a disscussion about it again (it didnt just start out of the blue), i didnt have to do much convincing so give me a brake, i asked a question and got answers thats it.

Oh yeah and from now on ask Juan Martin for free loops with counting and ****

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 25 2006 18:07:07

ivan

Posts: 73
Joined: Oct. 6 2005

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)

I know a few homeless guys in Almeria and sevilla that are just out of this world. amazing all around players. Juan Martin? I guess he's ok to those that don't know better.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 25 2006 18:11:24

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to ivan)

Nope i wont get into it again

but ul find no argument here Ivan :-)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 25 2006 18:13:46

ivan

Posts: 73
Joined: Oct. 6 2005

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)

Florian gets my top vote!!!! (:

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 25 2006 18:18:16

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to ivan)

heheh i am so ****ing diplomatic ...ops

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 25 2006 18:23:47

soulstring69

Posts: 87
Joined: Jan. 26 2006

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)

florian please dont not take it wrong. it just a poll that has no meanng at all stistiscal wise. and you remark about the loop you made me is also just wrong. did i offfended you that much? i do have one alegrais loop that if i can send it to you will you count it right for me? you a great player but it not as necessary to hurt some feelings over jun martin, as one postr already did leave because of it. that is what i referred too. let me know if you will count the alregrai loop for me, ok?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 25 2006 18:24:21

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to soulstring69)

thats cool soulstring i am just a litlle tired of having to explain myself when all i did was asked a question.. ( i said at the top its silly i know) many members chose not to vote) up to them, i didnt force anytone to do or say anything.

if you asked me the poll came out alot more in Jm favour than against, i think hed be jumping up and down with excitment.
yeah email me the track

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 25 2006 18:34:07

soulstring69

Posts: 87
Joined: Jan. 26 2006

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)

you a good person, florian.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 25 2006 18:42:48

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to soulstring69)

OK...now that this subject has been totally thrashed to death and holds zero interest anymore for anyone...can Dominic please end it with an appropriate picture?

thanks

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 25 2006 19:48:21

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Ron.M)

This thread is now locked, kicked the bucket, shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 25 2006 20:03:54