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RE: If falsetas are supposed to carr... (in reply to metalhead)
quote:
If falsetas are supposed to carry the cante melody
Falsetas are not "supposed" to carry, or even be based on cante melodies.
They are "supposed" to be little instrumental interludes BETWEEN the letras of the cante, while the singer takes a breath or rest.
But they CAN be based on or "carry" cante melody/ies... especially in a solo with no singer present... but it's not compulsory!
There's also a difference between "inspired by the cante", "based on the cante" and actually playing a cante melody... IM (spontaneous, off-the-cuff and possibly ill-thought out) O.
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Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: If falsetas are supposed to carr... (in reply to metalhead)
quote:
ORIGINAL: metalhead
If falsetas are supposed to carry the cante melody then how did he compose the one at 1:42 . Please explain
good question. Not sure who claimed falsetas all do that, but it is not really incorrect. What needs clarification is that one need not express the actual literal melody in the mind (there are in fact examples of this anyway such as the famous levantica by Ramon Montoya in his Rondeña solo) on the fingerboard, but one can HAVE a melody in mind to realize a formal structure of a falseta. By that I mean, we can think of the new original instrumental melody and its harmony as following the structure of a letra or an extracted line of verse, etc., as needed. Like a counter voicing plus the bass. Typically doing this under a singer's actual melody would be very distracting so traditionally we simplify counter voices to simple basic chords, with the IMPORTANT chords being the cadences points (punctuating the text lines). We express these chords with rasguedos and compás.
Since we don't have that with falsetas, we can be more sophisticated with the idea that we are following the "invisible" melody which, if you wanted, could be inserted right on top of the falseta in compás. So we normally think of "variations on a theme". If you followed the Regino Sainz de La maza thread, guaradme las vacas was a specific letra and melody, Romanesca is the "song form" generally that this ONE letra is based on (hence two names in sources), and what the vihuela solo represents in tabs are the "differencias" which are like variations on the general form and its melodies, without needing to express them overtly. Hence flamenco Letras, Palos, and falsetas represent the same tradition.
So in your example of Paco he is in Por medio bulerias. While there are tons of different buleria melodies and forms that can be exploited, the general basis is the Soleá form. Again there are too many options of melody structure to use as basis for the falsetas. Paco knows them ALL, based on his recording history with different singers, or has at least dealt with them. I can't say whether he knows when he is following a specific one, but for sure he is following an intuition BASED on those structures, in his falsetas ALL the time. Based on what I KNOW about the cantes this falseta is exploiting, two aspects of the cante.
1. He first plays a descending melody that implies the harmony moving from C7-F, then Eb-Bb. What is that? The melodies of a soleá typically rise and fall in the mode with the rising themes suggesting the move from A-Dm (often Bb can replace the Dm under the descending three notes F-E-D, or the simple climb up from A to D, this is in like 80% of solea cantes first sung lines). The descending portion of cantes lead us to the Phrygian cadences Bb (or Gm) to A major. The special case of a descending melody is when we do the "cambio" or the penultimate line of verse. It is that C7-F major in the context of A phrygian that is so colorful.
So that is literally what paco is doing, but then his cadence back to A (Eb is replacing F7-Bb, and he lands the Bb as appropriate) is suspended or held off right away by holding on that Bb. The next phrase he does is based on a different structure.
2. The soleá macho (Joaquin 3 and related styles) is unique conclusion of cante that breaks the normal form by repeating the first line of verse with different harmony. This melody will start you off in Dm, then take us back to A, and finally resolve on Dm on the repeat. After this, the cambio and conclusion as normal (and these can repeat as a double line unit) finishes the form. This form is essentially what happens in this falseta next.
So after that brief expression of a random "cambio" phrase, he climbs up the scale to resolve in Dm. (1:50-56 is the climb up). His decent to A phrygian at 2:03 is actually the set up to cadence BACK to Dm, exactly like the Macho (2:05). Next the cambio and conclusion are realized together by a sequence:C7-F (cambio 2:08), F7-Bb, to Bb7-A (conclusion 2:10), this whole phrase repeats together, exactly as the cante would. He adds a tag like an "answer" to that "letra" from 2:16-2:20, which is a chromatic style replacement for the basic descending cadence to A phrygian.
So if you familiarize your self with the various cante forms you might start hearing these simple musical structures at work in seemingly complex falseta variations.
Posts: 15950
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: If falsetas are supposed to carr... (in reply to devilhand)
quote:
Folk songs and flamenco cante have no chorus.
false. It is called the "estribillo" in Spanish.
quote:
Falseta is a hook between coplas.
If "hook" means "optional interlude" then yes...if not then no that is not correct. A palo can be performed with zero fasletas if the singer links together all the letras back to back.
quote:
I like cante but sometimes I say
Don't bore us. Get to the falseta.
This is an uninformed opinion that approaches the level of insulting those who are not ignorant of the art. Keep these to a minimum please.
RE: If falsetas are supposed to carr... (in reply to Ricardo)
Do you have a falseta that sounds very close to this falseta (the one I picked from La Tumbona)? Or even just something that took inspiration from this falseta? Or even a slightly improvised version would work. It'd be helpful too see how players take ideas and turn their own.
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From: Washington DC
RE: If falsetas are supposed to carr... (in reply to metalhead)
quote:
ORIGINAL: metalhead
Do you have a falseta that sounds very close to this falseta (the one I picked from La Tumbona)? Or even just something that took inspiration from this falseta? Or even a slightly improvised version would work. It'd be helpful too see how players take ideas and turn their own.
Each falseta is a unique idea following structure so not sure how close we can get. Here is a similar cante based example. At 4:59-5:11 he interprets the fandango estribillo sung by Potito on Zyryab "Almonte", however, in bulerías compás in C#. He also has a version of this in his rondeña guitar solo, and in his final concerts he used this estribillo to close out Zyryab to finish with singing rather than just end with that picado thing.
So it is short but hopefully you can hear how the singing is the drive behind this falseta. The very next one relates to the one we discussed, he basically does the soleá "cambio" to relative major to kick off the falseta. Here in C# the cambio is Bm7-E7-A (if por medio it is the same like the other one C7-F major). From there he does something different (he resolves to E and then uses E phrygian as a minor third modulation to go back to C# tonic). When he repeats that same phrase at 5:25, notice he does the exact same harmonic idea as the other falseta, he uses A7 (F7) to resolve on D (Bb), and then suspends the resolution for a long time. Anyway that is a general concept, it would take me some time to find the EXACT same sequence of ideas from the cante that he used earlier. This was off the top of my head.
Posts: 15950
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: If falsetas are supposed to carr... (in reply to devilhand)
quote:
ORIGINAL: devilhand
quote:
Here in C# the cambio is Bm7-E7-A
Jazz harmony in Paco's composition?
In 1860s Ocón transcribed "soledad" which basically moves in E Phrygian, from a Dm/F to E ostinato pattern under the singing (basically what we call basic compás or time keeping), to a C major chord. The tempo was fast for Soleá but normal for soleá por bulerias or a slow bulerias. That part of the letra is called the "cambio" where we punctuate the poem's penultimate line of verse using the relative major cadence. In the score it occurs twice, the second time, being anticipated by the player, moves Dm9-C major, then the G-F-E resolution to tonic. This concept of Dm9 (ii chord) moving to G7 (V chord) to C major (I), is fundamental to the cante and its proper accompaniment. The fact that "jazz" music exploits the 2-5-1 cadence is completely unrelated. Paco's use of it is not informed at all by jazz, but by his own tradition of cante accompaniment, which clearly predates jazz anyway. However these details are the exact reason why both Miles Davis and modern flamenco artists commune so naturally with each others music and make fusions since the 1950s.
RE: If falsetas are supposed to carr... (in reply to Ricardo)
Talking about II-V-I cadence, after C7-Cm7-F7 I expect Bb chord instead of Em7 in this chord progression. How can Em7 fit into this? Any theoretical explanation?
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From: Washington DC
RE: If falsetas are supposed to carr... (in reply to devilhand)
quote:
ORIGINAL: devilhand
Talking about II-V-I cadence, after C7-Cm7-F7 I expect Bb chord instead of Em7 in this chord progression. How can Em7 fit into this? Any theoretical explanation?
Gm7-C7-Cm7-F7-Em7-A7-Dm7-G7-Cmaj7
Not sure where you are getting this progression, but as it relates to western music in general, you might remember way back I tried to relate AUGMENTED 6th chords, of which in classical music they only teach 3 flavors (German, Italian, French), and that in Spain we have more varieties of these things, enough to warrant a "Spanish 6" extension to the concept.
Anyway, the F7 is spelled FACEb, and indeed it pulls toward Bb, and is in fact the "dominant" of the key of Bb major. It is "borrowed" for Bb minor key to function by raising the Ab to A natural as well. So a universal dominant that pulls toward Bb.
Now in the old Phrygian mode of the Renaissance the cadence was Dm to E using natural notes (G# appears as a final solution to the E minor chord, raising G to G# as "picardy third"). Often it was Dm inverted, F-A-D then resolve the voices to E-B-E, or E-G#-E, etc. depending. So the "rule" that allowed that cadence to settle was the 6th above the penultimate note (above the F melody note going to E, a D NOT a C was REQUIRED because consecutive 5ths might arise, a big no-no). So F-D resolve to E-E. In some rare cases a "ficta" might appear as a leading tone, D#-E. That would cause an aesthetic violation to the main melody note F, and in some case they would raise it to F# to rectify it, making a "normal" major or minor cadence (think B major to E major or minor would use F# and D#). That is a primary reason the old Phrygian mode disappears over time. due to Aesthetic rules of voice leading.
However, on occasion a composer or performer got away with a D# above the F natural...making a stronger pull towards E in both directions. This interval sounds like a minor 7th but is conceptually an "augmented 6th interval". That is what the basis of the harmonic devices called "augmented 6th chords" are doing. They are resolving voices of what SOUNDS like an F7, toward E NOT Bb, by the voice leading spelling. F-A-(C)-D# moves toward E (major or minor) NOT Bb. So by spelling something correctly you determine the direction of the voices.
IN this case it is a deliberate MISSPELLING of that Eb to a D# that allows it to function like a dominant move borrowed from Phrygian mode. IN jazz this same concept is called a "tritone substitute", where they alter the dominant function of B7 to E, by replacing it with F7 to E, which is an enharmonic interpretation of the F-A-C-D# thing. Often the #11 (B natural over the F7 voicing) aids in pulling toward E, and jazz guys end up with their own aesthetic "rules" for voicing and improvising.
Once you land on the E (minor7 in your example) you can move on as you please, having modulated AWAY from Bb toward E "something" (major minor or Phrygian).
RE: If falsetas are supposed to carr... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
Not sure where you are getting this progression,
It's an example for connecting many V-I or II-V-I cadences. I had a problem with connecting C7-Cm7-F7 and Em7-A7-Dm7 together.
Anyhow, a lot of information to absorb. But at first glance what I noticed is the cadence Dm-E. Is it the Phrygian cadence IVm-V?
quote:
Now in the old Phrygian mode of the Renaissance the cadence was Dm to E using natural notes (G# appears as a final solution to the E minor chord, raising G to G# as "picardy third").
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