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Flamenco and Respect?
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JBASHORUN
Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
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 RE: Flamenco and Respect? (in reply to Ron.M)
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quote:
Some folk have dipped their toes in it and used the little bits they have learned in their few weeks holiday in Andalucia and a few CDs to augment their own music, be it Blues or Jazz or something they created out of their own bedroom.
The Internet is awash with "Flamenco influenced" stuff now....
A couple of weeks ago on a Radio Arts programme, I heard this girl who played steel string guitar (singer/songwriter) being introduced as "someone who encompasses every mode from 60's Folk Rock to Flamenco".
I mean, I even see it on the Internet forums.
Some guy says.. "I've been playing Flamenco six months...any of you guys come across Siguiriyas timing?. I've got a heap of great stuff I've composed for that stuff, but I think it might not fit right?... Any help appreciated."
(Yeah...Let's Rock 'n Roll dude.... )
Unless you were born into Flamenco, its inevitable that you will be a newcomer at some stage. And its up to you how serious you want to take it. personally, I make an effort to understand each music and its background. But obviously my comprehension of Flamenco and Flamenco culture will probably never be equal to that of a true professional Flamenco guitarist like PDL. If I let that stop me, I would have never bothered to learn any Flamenco in the first place. My musical influences are very diverse, and it would be impossible for me to "live the life" of each of them. Furthermore, I REFUSE to choose between musical genres... each has something good to offer, and I reserve the right to play or practise whichever I feel like. And if the result is that my compositions sound like a mix of Flamenco, jazz, classical, rock, thrash, heavy metal, (and anything else) then so be it, as long as I don't claim its pure Flamenco. I would rather produce hybrid compositions such as this and do it well whilst putting my whole heart into it, then rigidly stick to pure Flamenco against my wishes, and fail miserably. That said, I do believe that if you claim to play real Flamenco, then that is what you should play, and you should know what you are talking about. But to be influenced by a genre is nothing. I read somewhere that Django Reinhardt was influenced Beethoven... but that doesn't make him a sell-out, or a "wannabe", or an abuser of the classical genre, does it? Good music comes in many forms, and sometimes you are a better musician when you are open to such ideas from other genres. personally, I'm just happy that people from many backgrounds are embracing and liking Flamenco.
Just my opinion.
Jb
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Apr. 21 2006 17:01:30
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: Flamenco and Respect? (in reply to PacoPaella)
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My post wasn't really about people foreign from Spain learning Flamenco.
Sure, as a foreigner, it's going to be a lot more difficult, starting from a later age, not knowing the language or culture etc, but just using your guitar skills and perceptiveness to try to cut your way through it.
Difficult, but certainly not impossible as others have shown.
The two points really from my post was the fact that the word "Flamenco" is bandied about in all sorts of ways that have nothing at all to do with the art, and the fact that even some serious students (who should perhaps know better), feel that Flamenco is just a mixture of time signatures and chord structures... and then you do your own thing.
This surely is a complete misconception of the music IMO.
A story...
Long ago, before Rock music became really International, I had the pleasure of sitting in with amateur guitarists from various European countries who were keen on learning Blues.
Once they (finally) got the idea that each phrase consisted of 12 bars..and not 11 or 13 and the general chords and technique of "bending" notes...then they were off!
No stopping them!
Each one "bending" notes and pulling strings like an archer in an attempt to be more "bluesy" than the next guy...
Was it Blues?
?????.......
Nah!!... 
cheers
Ron
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Apr. 21 2006 20:47:41
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Guest
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RE: Flamenco and Respect? (in reply to Guest)
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quote:
OK, let me have it but start by reading Ron M's first post.
i tried to read it, i got about two sentances in and gave up. Its just too long 
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Oct. 30 2006 1:49:58
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Ricardo
Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Flamenco and Respect? (in reply to Guest)
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quote:
I however won't listen to x or x only because i could be listening to x or x or x who were real artists.
This is where most arguements on the internet about musicians start and end. It is just taste. "real artists" to YOU, but to some one else, they could be complete crap. I try not to talk bad about anyone like "they are not real or good" artists, because I am sure the reason they are around is because somewhere someone is moved by them DEEPLY. These things are so personal. Of course, there are artists that I think suck or worse, the make me angry, but I try to avoid talking about them. A lot of folks just can't help but pipe in "oh that guy? he is fake...or he plays just techniques, no feeling...his fans don't know anything"...etc. It is really personal. True, as knowleadge is acquired, tastes can change.
So in some cases educating people on specific points is good. I don't think "he plays too many notes, no feeling" is specific. It is a general write off. "Manitas is off compas", is more specific and does not really say anything mean about the person. Sure some folks will get upset about a statement like that, but if it is true...
So I try to be diplomatic as I can, until I am asked my opinion directly. One guy asked what I feel about Yamashita. I said "you don't want to know...believe me." I could have lied, or not responed, but all I am saying is people are very happy to jump in and say so and so sucks, with the pass card of "IMO". I dont' think that is fair. I will try to defend any musicians I love for sure though, and won't hesitate to give as specific an example I can as to why I don't like a certain artist. I have changed my mind about certain players and style too many times in the past. Argueing about who is better than who or who is a "real artist" or not, has gotten really old on the internet.
Ricardo
Ps here is a good example. I am about to write another dissertation anaylizing the crazy rhythms, scales and changes in one of the guitar trio (al john paco) tunes in that other thread, for the ONE guy who seems to care about it. What is there to stop someone, or a bunch of like mined folk, from posting after me with "the trio is boring, just a bunch of fast scales, a big ego contest of who's faster...", with the gold pass of "IMO"? Nothing. Everyone is entitled to say what they feel. But what is the point of such a general right off, of a specific topic? I think it would be rude, but that is my opinion.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Oct. 30 2006 2:55:03
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