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Some new videos of Alejandro Hurtado were posted a couple of months ago at <https://www.youtube.com/@FlamencoPlus/videos>, including what looks like a new tangos:
Gotta love this Tangos de Ramon Montoya. Can anyone hear or see what is going on harmonically at 1:46? Is he modulating to Tanguillos de Cadiz? Any key change? Sounds like there's no change in tempo.
Gotta love this Tangos de Ramon Montoya. Can anyone hear or see what is going on harmonically at 1:46? Is he modulating to Tanguillos de Cadiz? Any key change? Sounds like there's no change in tempo.
The original title used by Montoya was "Tangos y Tientos". Tientos was a term used by the spanish vihuelistas in the 16th century, I take it to mean "etude" or something like that. An instrumental interlude type thing vs vocal music transported to fingerboard. Other instrumental pieces that were more involved were called "fantasias".
Anyway today we know tientos is the heavier cante in 2/4 meter, like solea if you want, but in the dance this speeds up into Tangos. So the two are related like Solea and buleria are related. Tanguillo is in fact what he transforms the piece into. We would call this piece today "Tango y Tanguillo". But back in his time the Tango was sometimes called "Tientos canasteros". So as I have been saying for years, the song titles are vague and have changed meaning over the years. Cantaores in modern times tell the audience "vamos a cantar un tiento-tango".
Please note right before the change to A major tanguillo, that he uses the "cambio" for the cante as discussed in the other topic (F-F maj7#11-C major or "reverse" cambio, then Bb scale down), which again has nothing to do with "jazz", especially in those days. He uses the normal cambio C7-F major before the Bb-A conclusions several times in the first half of the piece, again based on cante accompaniments. Also there are brief sections that modulate to A minor during the Tanguillo section, which is basically the same as Tangos de Malaga or Farruca guitar forms.
As a side note, one of the most interesting things Montoya did on that record is transport the lead in phrase for the cante from the Malagueña, (Am, G-F#G, D-E-F, E arpegio) into the Guajiras, demonstrating the compás overlap of hemiola (6/8-3/4) with fandango.
Thanks for the explanation. The key change was por medio -> A major? Similarly one can modulate from por arriba to E major key? This is new to me because I've only heard modulating between relative major and minor keys is common practice in flamenco.
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Also there are brief sections that modulate to A minor during the Tanguillo section, which is basically the same as Tangos de Malaga or Farruca guitar forms.
Thanks for the explanation. The key change was por medio -> A major? Similarly one can modulate from por arriba to E major key? This is new to me because I've only heard modulating between relative major and minor keys is common practice in flamenco.
quote:
Also there are brief sections that modulate to A minor during the Tanguillo section, which is basically the same as Tangos de Malaga or Farruca guitar forms.
Timestamps?
A major to minor to phrygian are called "parallel" modulations. That is in contrast to modulation to relative keys or modes, or modulation by 5ths, 4th, steps in the scale etc. Parallel means you modulate or change mode based on the same root note. Modern jazz rock guys use the term "pitch axis" where you hold a root bass note and change the scale around it.
In flamenco guitar this occurs, or is learned, via cante accompaniment. Often the conclusions of the darker phrygian cantes in Solea siguiriyas, bulerias, etc., will introduce the "cambio" with the voice (for example Bb become B natural por medio, or in arriba the F natural becomes F#), and this forces the guitar to play a dominant 7th from the major key (B natural in A Phrygian calls in the E7, as opposed to other chords like G7 etc.). So I often wondered, as a trained musician learning this stuff, WHY we only had limited harmonic options to accompany the cante, but it turns out the tradition is dictating that to the guitarists and is part of why it takes years to learn simple chords for songs. There is a lot of learning memorized melodic phrases of the cante, so that the singer can "lead" the guitarist harmonically with "code" notes and the like, as attached to the poems. It is why we had long discussion before about whether or not knowing the lyrics is important to accompanying...it is a "yes and no" nuanced thing. The "code notes" thing is more important than lyrics in a musical sense, and we see non- native speakers accompanying just fine based on that info, however, you need to know enough about the language to know where you are inside the poetic structure, which line is repeating etc.
Anyway, in the performance the modulations to A minor occur at 3:05-3:10 and briefly at 3:44...at 4:06 is a brief modulation to C# minor. When these types of modulations occur today by a guy like Tomatito, people say "oh that must be his Jazz influence".
Technically por arriba is in C major and por medio in F major. Soundwise it's a big jump when you modulate from C major to E major or from F to A major?
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singer can "lead" the guitarist harmonically with "code" notes and the like, as attached to the poems.
I think you have relative pitch. It's easier for you to perceive those code notes in flamenco cante. No?
Technically por arriba is in C major and por medio in F major. Soundwise it's a big jump when you modulate from C major to E major or from F to A major?
quote:
singer can "lead" the guitarist harmonically with "code" notes and the like, as attached to the poems.
I think you have relative pitch. It's easier for you to perceive those code notes in flamenco cante. No?
Yes a big jump interms of adding or subtracting sharps and flats. However between minor and phrygian it is only one note change.
Yes, relative pitch is essential, but these skills develop overtime with practice. All tocaores have to learn this “on the job” so to speak. The juerga itself is often a workshop in developing your ear. New guitarists are told “listen to the cante”, but the challenge is WHAT are you listening out for? It goes faster working with actual singers than sitting at home with your record collection.
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