Mariano Conde

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Mariano Conde

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Morante

Posts: 2182
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

Mariano Conde

Sorry to bring this up again, but last night in the Peña the tocaor was playing a Conde with the letters MC on the upper bout. I was not the only one to think that the guitar had a very poor sound.

Afterwards, I spoke with the soundman, an exprofessional guitarist who had accompanied many famous singers and had owned several good Condes before settling on a great Reyes. He was very frustrated: said the guitar sounded so bad that he could find no way to amplify it. He was of the opinion that modern Condes are rubbish. Somewhat surprising given their inflated price.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2024 0:47:44

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Morante)

man thats their option choice , theres dozens of good excelence guitarreros that charge less or the same , and they choose to play with those condes
What to say? i have no compassion on that , its their choice.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2024 11:14:24

hxwhf72752003

Posts: 38
Joined: Mar. 19 2024
From: Hunan, China

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Morante)

Hi morente，do you have any audio or video from that day?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2024 14:56:35

Morante

Posts: 2182
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to hxwhf72752003)

I am not an internet freak.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2024 15:57:48

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Morante)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

Sorry to bring this up again, but last night in the Peña the tocaor was playing a Conde with the letters MC on the upper bout. I was not the only one to think that the guitar had a very poor sound.

Afterwards, I spoke with the soundman, an exprofessional guitarist who had accompanied many famous singers and had owned several good Condes before settling on a great Reyes. He was very frustrated: said the guitar sounded so bad that he could find no way to amplify it. He was of the opinion that modern Condes are rubbish. Somewhat surprising given their inflated price.

As I said earlier, those instruments I tried in the shop had a very very thick finish that was muting the voice. I tried to show examples comparing Jesus (MC) and Merecedes (FC jr)to try to explain that the difference in the live audio was fairly literal to how i remembered it (even if Jesus was a stronger player than Mercedes, which wasn’t the point about the guitar voice). But it is of course, somewhat subjective.

quote:

I am not an internet freak.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2024 16:00:02

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Morante)

I tried once a new very expensive MC guitar in Jerez, it was the worst guitar worth over 500 euros I have tried, I think it was around 4000 euros. Just a thick finish even can't make a guitar sound that bad I would imagine. And people buy those because of the brand...

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2024 22:59:53

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Morante)

maybe a better deal with their ex top luthier , Guadano

https://www.xn--guitarras-guadao-lub.com/

"Mis guitarras
Las Guitarras Guadaño están construidas a mano, pieza a pieza, con maderas nobles de primera calidad que selecciono para cada guitarra buscando el mejor timbre y vibración incluso cuando la madera está aún en bruto. Esto, solo se consigue después de una gran experiencia acumulada a través de años de construcción de estos instrumentos.

Está experiencia nació en el verano del 1991, año en el que (después de llevar bastante tiempo trabajando la madera) comencé a trabajar para Conde Hermanos primero –fabricando sus guitarras de primera- (19 años) y para Mariano Conde después (8 años).

Con ésta experiencia unida a los conocimientos de música desarrollados en el Real Conservatorio de Música de Madrid, estudios de Electrónica y acústica (que ayudan a comprender como se transmite el sonido y las vibraciones de las ondas sonoras) he podido diseñar un varetaje (conjunto de piezas de madera colocadas dentro, en la tapa de la guitarra) que por su distribución, longitud y distancia, producen una transmisión óptima del sonido de cada cuerda de la guitarra, dando un equilibrio y sonoridad (y cuidando también el timbre) entre los bajos y las tiples del instrumento. A esto último también ha contribuido la forma y el volumen, o tamaño, del cuerpo de la guitarra que también he estudiado con profundidad.

La cuidadosa terminación de cada pieza y su ensamblaje y también todos los detalles de tallado, filigranas, cenefas, adornos, etc. Hacen de éstos instrumentos unas verdaderas obras de arte de las que me siento muy orgulloso."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2024 9:37:34

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

Yes, we know about him. I now need to try HIS guitars to compare to what I am used to from Felipe V. Felipe jr. Told me about him a year ago when this came up.

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=345561&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=guada%E3%B1o&tmode=&smode=&s=#345632

He basically told me the claims were exaggerated and that he helped with about 30% of the work and learned about building, but was not producing 90% of the top models as claimed. Again, I will need to try this guy’s guitars maybe he is great, I don’t know yet.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2024 12:48:54

sol512

Posts: 9
Joined: Oct. 23 2023

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Morante)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

Sorry to bring this up again, but last night in the Peña the tocaor was playing a Conde with the letters MC on the upper bout. I was not the only one to think that the guitar had a very poor sound.

Afterwards, I spoke with the soundman, an exprofessional guitarist who had accompanied many famous singers and had owned several good Condes before settling on a great Reyes. He was very frustrated: said the guitar sounded so bad that he could find no way to amplify it. He was of the opinion that modern Condes are rubbish. Somewhat surprising given their inflated price.

What are the names of the tocaor and the "ex-professional guitarist turned sound engineer"?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2024 6:16:49

sol512

Posts: 9
Joined: Oct. 23 2023

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Morante)

So you are unwilling to share a video of the event or share the names of the tocaor or the "famous tocaor who is now a sound engineer".

Why did you create this thread??

Many flamenco professionals currently play and record with Mariano Conde (MC) flamenco guitars and they sound amazing!

Plenty of youtube videos of these tocaors playing MC guitars for anyone to see.

Antonio Higuero (one of the best Jerezano accompanists owns 3 MC guitars)
Manuel Valencia (one of the top guitarists, again from Jerez)
Joni Jimenez (CanoRoto, Madrid)
Jesus Guerrero
Antonio Sanchez (nephew of Paco de Lucia)
El Curro Carrasco (nephew of Diego Carrasco from Jerez)
Juani de la Isla

and there are many others professionals who also choose MC guitars.

These are all professionals of the highest calibre, they know what a good flamenco guitar should be and they all choose to play Mariano Conde (MC) guitars.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 5 2024 3:41:08

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to sol512)

i dont share that view , and MC isnt an isolated fenomen.
but.... no one is forced to play with them ...

for example , i dont enjoy Rafael Riqueni with MC , prefer others that he play , but thats his choice.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 5 2024 10:21:56

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to sol512)

quote:

Why did you create this thread??

I checked that you did not miss the long MC thread in the Luthier section...you perhaps did not read it all, but contributed the names of some other builders. Well....Morante was posting something recent in response to the (at the time, he even apologized for bringing up the topic again) recent on going discussion. He could name drop of course, but I personally don't feel it matters. I already gave the comparison example of Mercedes vs Jesus Guerrero in that thread somewhere.

Yes we know pros use those instruments, that is beside the point. In fact that WAS the point of Morante's. The POINT in that other thread was that there is plain out ODD behavior going on in regards to building guitars over there. Why bad mouthing of Felipe and son??? Very strange instal of cameras in shop, then turn his back to the camera? I mean everything was weird to me. In the end we have the guitars to compare ourselves.

Morante could not care about the drama, he just so happened to notice something going on in Cadiz. He has no obligation to put names and add to the drama, there is plenty. Feel free to comment about the actual topic in that other thread....or not.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 5 2024 11:40:57

sol512

Posts: 9
Joined: Oct. 23 2023

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

I already gave the comparison example of Mercedes vs Jesus Guerrero in that thread somewhere.

An extremely subjective comparison of 2 videos recorded in different rooms with different acoustics and different recording equipment.

quote:

Yes we know pros use those instruments, that is beside the point.
In fact that WAS the point of Morante's.

A thread referring to an unnamed Pena in an undisclosed location with the (unverifiable) personal subjective opinions of "mystery guitarist X" and "mystery sound-engineer Y" is considered "making a point"??

Since you are Morante's spokesperson can you elaborate on the point being made?

I posted a partial list of some of Spains top current flamenco guitarists (who obviously know how to select a good flamenco guitar) and they choose to perform, and record, with MC guitars. Thats a HUGE endorsement.
Anyone can go to youtube and see/hear these guitarists performing with MC guitars.
And they sound great!

Curiously, apart from Mercedes Lujan which other top flamenco guitarists in Spain currently perform and record with Felipe Conde guitars (either Father or Son)?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 6 2024 16:33:19

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to sol512)

and i know a pro player that had promoted a "special model" worth 4k and dont like the guitar , sometimes play with her to promote nothing more.... of course he receives a comission for that particular model sold.
We all know and even Ricardo gave some examples how things gets done , people have to eat , have things to pay for...

im not talking MC , what pros say or what they promote isnt allways pure or true...

i heard today a Sanchis 2F that sounded like a nice Conde... i enjoyed more than Riqueni MC
Just for curiosity , if he liked so much why dont play with her more often? or anymore?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 6 2024 20:36:02

12850bd

Posts: 148
Joined: Nov. 9 2006
From: australia

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Morante)

A lot of these arguments are pointless. Felipe Conde/Mariano Conde /Sanchis. It doesnt really matter they all make really good guitars and some not so good. A hand made guitar made by anyone is not 100% consistent from one to the next.
On my last trip to Spain last year I visited both Mariano and Felipe (as well as Bellido and Reyes ) As usual they pull out the first guitar they want to get rid of and as you reject them they bring out better examples.
With both of the Conde brothers I played some really excellent instruments and some definitely second rate. I ended up buying a 2019 FC28 but is was a difficult choice and I could have gone either way.
In regards to the top professional players ...its not that simple. Its often about the price they pay...the personal relationship they have with the luthiers and of course advertising deals they do.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 6 2024 23:59:00

Morante

Posts: 2182
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

He has no obligation to put names and add to the drama

Ricardo, no need to defend me, but I have noticed that this chulo registered in 2023, did not leave a name or a location, so prefers to be anonymous. Still he insists in the revelation of names, to which he has no right whatsoever. Could he be an agent oculto of Conde???

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 7 2024 16:40:25

hxwhf72752003

Posts: 38
Joined: Mar. 19 2024
From: Hunan, China

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to sol512)

I don‘t think Mariano Conde’ guitars sounds good, they are just like my gravina conde 1990 which is 3000 euro

But Mariano Conde sells his guitar with a high price which does not match the sound level of the guitar.
It's time to ignore those new Condes and try some other luthiers such Javier Castano. I think his guitars have a special ripple. If someone want to buy my Conde I will sell it immediately and order a guitar from Javier Castano.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 7 2024 17:49:46

hxwhf72752003

Posts: 38
Joined: Mar. 19 2024
From: Hunan, China

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Morante)

Conde is popular in China because Paco de Lucia used it. But only a few professional flamenco guitarists use Conde in China. For one hand Condes are expensive and rare in China, the other hand is that Condes' sound does not match the crazy price.
I know some Chinese flamenco players and they use Paco Rey, Conde(Felipe V), Jesus de jimenez, Conde from Gravina(after 1990), Javier Castano, Pedro Maldonado, Jose Ramirez, Marin Montero.
It is obviously that Mariano Conde is not a good choice in my country.
In my opinion, Mariano Conde promised to sell guitars to players at a low price for promotional purposes. Another guitar with the same configuration as Jesus Gerrero‘s guitar actually costs 20,000 euros. If anyone buys this guitar, I think he is crazy

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 7 2024 18:02:36

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to hxwhf72752003)

quote:

Conde is popular in China because Paco de Lucia used it.

Very strange. In spain they were popular because
Niño Ricardo
Melchor de Marchena
Manuel Morao
Manuel Parilla
Paco Cepero
Felix de Utrera
Esteban de Sanlucar and his brother Antonio
Manolo Sanlucar
Ramon de Algeciras
And
Antonio Piñana’s son

Used them to accompany the cante of the day on historical recordings and video documentaries from the 40s to the 70s.

Here is Paco de Lucia using a Ramirez unlike all the rest (probably because Sabicas used one).

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2024 11:39:19

hxwhf72752003

Posts: 38
Joined: Mar. 19 2024
From: Hunan, China

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Ricardo)

Well, there is a interesting problem.

Most Chinese flamenco fans are not interested in traditional flamenco art. They like "Rumba" and their favorite flamenco artists are Gipsy Kings, Vicente Amigo and Paco de Lucia. I think the reason why they like Conde because Paco used one in the performances of Entre dos aguas and Mediterranean Sundance.

The development of flamenco is hard in China because only a small group of people like traditional flamenco. My flamenco dance workshop teacher told me that there are only aboout 200 dancers in China and only 10 guitar players who can accompany for dance and singing (I was included although I am not a good player lol)

Then again. Because of the low willing to learn about traditional flamenco, people only know some more modern and more famous guitarists. That's why they like conde because Paco used it!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2024 12:07:10