Paco's sitting position out of fashion

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devilhand

Posts: 1605
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

Paco's sitting position out of fashion

Times have changed. Nowadays most young tocaors prefer another sitting position.
The left foot is on the ground. The right foot is raised with the footstool or raised like Dani de moron in this video. In terms of anatomy Paco's sitting position comes off second best? Any thoughts?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2024 16:41:53

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Paco's sitting position out of f... (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

Any thoughts?

Not really. no

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2024 19:40:26

Filip

Posts: 405
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: Paco's sitting position out of f... (in reply to devilhand)

I don't think that what matters about Paco's sitting position is that he crossed a leg, imho it's more about having the guitar in almost horizontal position wrt the neck and having freedom to move your left hand easily around the neck. Actually if you really look at Paco's playing you'll see that he uses footstool as well. So does not really matter if you use footstool or cross legs, you achieve the same thing.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2024 19:59:37

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1893
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Paco's sitting position out of f... (in reply to devilhand)

After a few years of the Paco position, it became tiring and painful for the right leg to be crossed all the time. I began to use my guitar case to elevate my left leg and the position was perfect (and better for my back too). Since my guitar case is red, it was also a nice decoration so it didn't look out of place too much, in any case I didn't care :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2024 21:03:27

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco's sitting position out of f... (in reply to devilhand)

Playing standing up is the best.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2024 21:55:15

zendalex

Posts: 137
Joined: Sep. 4 2010
From: New York area

RE: Paco's sitting position out of f... (in reply to Ricardo)

I have recently started to explore playing in a classical flamenco position, the one I see Rafael Cortes always uses in concerts. I like that the back is straight, and there is good blood flow as opposed to when the legs are crossed. However, my left shoulder gets tired very soon, and also somehow it is more difficult for the left hand to press on the strings. Its a bummer as I think this position is more versatile, you dont need a foot stool and sitting on a chair holding guitar seems the most natural.

I see young paco actually plays exactly like that. Wondering, if I just need to train my shoulder so it has more stamina?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2024 22:11:45

devilhand

Posts: 1605
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Paco's sitting position out of f... (in reply to Filip)

quote:

Actually if you really look at Paco's playing you'll see that he uses footstool as well.

I've never seen Paco using footstool.

quote:

So does not really matter if you use footstool or cross legs, you achieve the same thing.

Of course both positions lead to the same result. But one can say crossed leg position is the trademark of Paco. So there's a difference.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2024 22:55:58

devilhand

Posts: 1605
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Paco's sitting position out of f... (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

quote:

Since my guitar case is red, it was also a nice decoration so it didn't look out of place too much, in any case I didn't care :)

Ole! Red is the color of flamenco.

quote:

I began to use my guitar case to elevate my left leg and the position was perfect (and better for my back too).

The cool thing about this sitting position is your left leg is free to move. Foot tapping becomes much easier.
One can use microphone stand as a footstool.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2024 23:03:18

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Paco's sitting position out of f... (in reply to devilhand)

Over the years I learned to play in all different positions.
It is in my opinion better for your body on the long term

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2024 23:13:03

Filip

Posts: 405
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: Paco's sitting position out of f... (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

I've never seen Paco using footstool.

You need to look carefully
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fc8.alamy.com%2Fcomp%2FJK9EN6%2Fpaco-de-lucia-face-portrait-music-concert-spanish-flamenco-guitarist-JK9EN6.jpg&tbnid=XOZC-dXInxZVwM&vet=10CDUQMyh_ahcKEwiQjY3Om9GEAxUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAg..i&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.alamy.com%2Fstock-photo-paco-de-lucia-face-portrait-music-concert-spanish-flamenco-guitarist-149570546.html&docid=mZ24KrRHjY4ZfM&w=870&h=1390&q=paco%20de%20lucia&ved=0CDUQMyh_ahcKEwiQjY3Om9GEAxUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAg

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 29 2024 18:51:47

devilhand

Posts: 1605
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Paco's sitting position out of f... (in reply to Filip)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Filip

quote:

I've never seen Paco using footstool.

You need to look carefully

I saw it yesterday on youtube. But you have to really search for it. On backstage or during a rehearsal before a concert he does change positions. Actually it's not about whether Paco uses footstool or not.
The fact is crossed leg position is associated with Paco and as mentioned above it became his trademark.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 1 2024 0:31:39

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco's sitting position out of f... (in reply to gerundino63)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gerundino63

Over the years I learned to play in all different positions.
It is in my opinion better for your body on the long term

Yep. Any one single position you try to hold is really bad for you. Especially on stage where you have to be careful of mic placement and have nervous energy, etc. Horrible. I shift around like ants in the pants to preserve what is left of my out of shape body (from years of sitting and playing guitar…horrible.). Footstool is just another device to worry about that forces you into a position as well (if you are gonna use it all the time). Again, it is a shame standing up with a strap is viewed as “disrespectful” to the arte. I noticed Cañito started doing it years back, and good for him. I dropped these 2 prejudices I had about the flamenco guitar aesthetic a few years ago: Traditional capo, and playing seated. Yes, I still do it when appropriate and at home relaxing, but using a fast mechanical capo and playing standing is saving my mind and body a lot of grief.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 1 2024 13:02:00

metalhead

Posts: 120
Joined: Apr. 15 2023

RE: Paco's sitting position out of f... (in reply to Ricardo)

I use a stool and it has led to a chronic pain in my right knee, I can't open my right leg normally. Maybe because I sit at a stretch for hours. The other 2 positions suck worse, sitting with crossed legs causes even more fatigue and if I sit in the proper traditional way , the guitar keeps falling over. So I guess I just have to deal with, however I'm worried it might lead to arthritis since my mom has it

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2024 6:23:06

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Paco's sitting position out of f... (in reply to metalhead)

To play in the formal (Paco Peña) position, You could use an anti-slip cloth. On your right leg or under your right biceps.
After you learned the right sense, you can try without.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2024 8:34:34

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Paco's sitting position out of f... (in reply to Ricardo)

why a modern capo Ricardo ? (thats what i use )

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2024 11:12:07

Filip

Posts: 405
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: Paco's sitting position out of f... (in reply to devilhand)

Speaking about capos, I have two traditional ones. One I bought in Madrid around 10 years ago and it's hard to use now because it does not hold well. The other I got online from flamenco-world 19 years ago and I still use it and it works like a charm.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2024 11:48:36

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco's sitting position out of f... (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Manitas de Lata

why a modern capo Ricardo ? (thats what i use )

Traditional capos look super cool, and are like jewelry for the guitar. But functionality is not always practical unless you get lucky and have a well behaved one that also looks sharp. So for me it is a trade off, looks for function.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2024 16:06:00

hamia

Posts: 403
Joined: Jun. 25 2004

RE: Paco's sitting position out of f... (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Manitas de Lata

why a modern capo Ricardo ? (thats what i use )

Traditional capos look super cool, and are like jewelry for the guitar. But functionality is not always practical unless you get lucky and have a well behaved one that also looks sharp. So for me it is a trade off, looks for function.

I'm all for guitar drip so I approve of the traditional capo. I also recommend leaving a few long strings dangling from the tuners for a bit of sprezzatura.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 6 2024 13:20:05

metalhead

Posts: 120
Joined: Apr. 15 2023

RE: Paco's sitting position out of f... (in reply to hamia)

I always leave my strings uncut from both ends

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 6 2024 19:31:52

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco's sitting position out of f... (in reply to metalhead)

How unsightly!

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www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 7 2024 12:07:02

AndresK

Posts: 313
Joined: Jan. 4 2019
From: Patras, Greece

RE: Paco's sitting position out of f... (in reply to devilhand)

Ok. Here is a very weird position position to play. Be careful, you cannot get up after 3 pieces. And also a capo by my guitar luthier, Vassilis Lazarides that is super easy to use and I get no buzzing at all.

In live performances I always change between Paco position and traditional, because this way the mic stays exactly in the same position. A huge advantage in the Paco position while performing is that you can change the height of the guitar slightly so it can accommodate the left hand to reach higher up the fretboard, above the 12th fret.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 7 2024 13:30:27