String crossing

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String crossing

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devilhand

Posts: 1606
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

String crossing

Has anyone developed THE optimal way of string crossing? Considering different finger length, I believe there must be only one way. One for im and one for mi picado during increasing and decreasing scale runs. Those who developed fast picado, share your string crossing technique.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2024 14:06:45

Norman Paul Kliman

Posts: 60
Joined: Dec. 5 2023

RE: String crossing (in reply to devilhand)

If by “string crossing” you mean moving striking-hand fingers to a string that hasn’t been played yet, and if by “increasing and decreasing” you mean ascending and descending, there’s no trick or single way to do it, in my opinion. Once you’ve developed picado and are comfortable with it, the only real difficulty is having to move to a lower-pitched string with your middle finger, and the only effective way to overcome that difficulty is to get used to it.

I call this the “awkward fingering” in the picado exercises on my website: http://canteytoque.es/pmiexc.htm#picado (see Exercise 8).

Most of the time, you can avoid the problem by starting with index or middle in order to have your index available to play the “new” lower-pitched string, but some melodic lines will force you to use the awkward fingering, so it’s best to just get used to it. If you spend some time playing Exercise 8 starting m-i, it will eventually become just as easy as it is starting i-m. Of course, tomorrow it’ll be just as hard as before, but you’ll probably warm up to the idea a little more quickly. Three steps forward, two steps back.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2024 18:43:09

Ricardo

Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: String crossing (in reply to devilhand)

I mentioned way back when, probably to one of your inquiries, that I applied the Paul Gilbert picking patterns to achieve a similar fluidity between i and m as flat picking up vs down strokes. In otherwords, the left hand becomes important. There are many caveats and exceptions, but it was a general thing that helped me mainly with improvising, where you don’t have the luxury of drilling long phrases like falsetas. I worked out many of these in Paco’s guajiras tutorial (paco falseta tutorial 6) on YouTube. What works for me might not be for everybody, and Paco himself has what I consider “inefficient” crossings that he deliberately drilled (such as Zyryab ending, leading with m finger instead of i).

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2024 19:49:18

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: String crossing (in reply to devilhand)

What those guys said.

Plus this last year I had two big revelations.
1. Going back to and religiously practicing a couple of Gerardo Nunez picado exercises that deal with string crossing, going back and forth and back again.
2. Nail shape. Specifically the results from that thread I started. and Ricardo's nail advice. (Actually only had to religiously practice those exercises daily for about 2 weeks before the breakthrough)

Reshaping my nails seems to have unlocked the never level of technique progression for me. Particularly with picado and the string crossing issues I've always had send to have gone away. Or at least the ones that remain I know are conquerable.
(Wish I'd started that thread 5 years earlier)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2024 23:15:06

Auda

Posts: 246
Joined: Sep. 28 2019

RE: String crossing (in reply to devilhand)

I only play a few scales but of the few I play one is Norman's ex. no.8 due to the string crossings. I play it starting with both m and i, I also play it, at times, with ami. After playing it thousands of times it seems to have worked for me (for the most part). Cheers to Norman

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2024 2:42:29

devilhand

Posts: 1606
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: String crossing (in reply to Norman Paul Kliman)

quote:

I call this the “awkward fingering” in the picado exercises on my website: http://canteytoque.es/pmiexc.htm#picado (see Exercise 8).

As you pointed out the picado Ex in another thread, I tried Ex 8. Do you think one gets the same result when it's played on open strings only?

Btw, at 8:10 Grisha mentions the important point. Anyone have the same sensation in the fingers while crossing strings?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 23 2024 21:58:05

devilhand

Posts: 1606
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: String crossing (in reply to Stu)

quote:

2. Nail shape. Specifically the results from that thread I started. and Ricardo's nail advice. (Actually only had to religiously practice those exercises daily for about 2 weeks before the breakthrough)

Don't forget to mention nail surface. I have tried different nail shape for my m finger. Unlike Mr. Marlow I attack strings at an angle. My m finger nail has a slight ramp going up away from the thumb. So does my index finger.

quote:

I only play a few scales but of the few I play one is Norman's ex. no.8 due to the string crossings.

These days I'm developing a middle finger centered approach for string crossing. These picado exercises came at the right time.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 23 2024 22:04:35

Norman Paul Kliman

Posts: 60
Joined: Dec. 5 2023

RE: String crossing (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

Do you think one gets the same result when it's played on open strings only?

I don't understand the question.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 24 2024 7:35:09

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: String crossing (in reply to Norman Paul Kliman)

quote:

I don't understand the question.

Norman, meet devilhand!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 24 2024 17:59:48

devilhand

Posts: 1606
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: String crossing (in reply to Norman Paul Kliman)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Norman Paul Kliman

quote:

Do you think one gets the same result when it's played on open strings only?

I don't understand the question.

Practicing on open strings leaving out left hand fingerings. I prefer practicing only on open strings.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 25 2024 20:43:10

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: String crossing (in reply to devilhand)

Well it's obvious no?
If you only practice with the right You'd only get the benefit for the right hand. But you'd lose any benefit of the coordination with the left.

There was a string crossing exercise I practiced for a while attributed to paco that was like this. Just right hand

Eventually, unfortunately, to make music, I think you may have to add some left hand fingerings.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 25 2024 20:58:16

devilhand

Posts: 1606
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: String crossing (in reply to Stu)

quote:

If you only practice with the right You'd only get the benefit for the right hand. But you'd lose any benefit of the coordination with the left.

That's a valid point. Maybe that's the reason why I struggle with right and left hand synchronization in picado.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 25 2024 21:24:10

Norman Paul Kliman

Posts: 60
Joined: Dec. 5 2023

RE: String crossing (in reply to devilhand)

What Stu said.

In case it’s not obvious, I’ll point out that there are three right-hand configurations repeated throughout the exercise. You can see them in the first measure on beats 1, 2 and 3 (same configuration on beats 1 and 4). The configurations are repeated thereafter on pairs of adjacent strings, but, because of the standard tuning, the melody is spread across three strings between beat 4 of the second measure and beat 1 of the third measure.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2024 8:07:50

devilhand

Posts: 1606
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: String crossing (in reply to Norman Paul Kliman)

This is what you wrote on your website.

quote:

it's awkward to move to a lower-pitched string with the middle finger

That's the exact moment when I have to move my hand to the next higher position. Then it's not awkward anymore. Works for me.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2024 19:54:53

Ricardo

Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: String crossing (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

That's the exact moment when I have to move my hand to the next higher position. Then it's not awkward anymore. Works for me.

Not when you still have notes to do on the higher pitch string, starting with index. When you are running a descending scale this is a non-issue.

Here is a simple exercise between first and second string. Move around left hand shape in diatonic thirds, any scale you want, but do triplets between strings 1-2-1, 1-2-1, 1-2-1, etc. Then switch the pattern to 2-1-2, 2-1-2, etc. That forces you to address the issue which is that you need to be “ambidextrous” regarding string crossings with i and m fingers.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2024 15:00:28