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now this is really odd to me, I've never once seen a buleria falseta end on beat 12, and what confuses me even more is the guy's cierre ends on beat 4?! That's even more funny; I've counted this a gazillion times the past few hours and tell me if I'm wrong
Posts: 1956
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton
RE: Falseta counting confusion (in reply to metalhead)
Don't be confused by half compáses which are VERY common to bulerías, especially those of Jerez. Just count 6s and you'll be alright. The bit you mention ends with a downstroke on the counterbeat of 10, then goes into the rasgueado bit. It's a technicality because the end is on 10 but it's his own choice to make that downstroke, in this case to prepare the next sequence of the falseta/piece, to keep the groove going. Again, you'll see this kind of thing very often, especially in accompaniment.
Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Falseta counting confusion (in reply to metalhead)
quote:
now this is really odd to me, I've never once seen a buleria falseta end on beat 12, and what confuses me even more is the guy's cierre ends on beat 4?!
You are starting to notice, now that you are getting used to 12 count phrasing, all the exceptions to the “rules”. There are not those rules as believed. Not just 6 count phrases that add up to 6 or 18 count modules or phrases where it is ambiguous what is 10 or 4, but even smaller odd units where you end up with 9 count phrases or odd 3’s depending how you choose to count.
If you go back to my two videos of cante accompaniment por bulerias I was deliberately cutting the compas in half in the manner you are just now observing with these falsetas. The falsetas are just a reflection of the cante accompaniment situations, hence why i was showing you that stuff earlier. So to clarify those examples again, I don’t think of cutting on count 4, even though that is how some of those literally count out. The idea is the 6-10 portion of the phrase is extracted and can be repeated in odd groupings at will. This is standard for Bulerias, but very rare in Solea and buleria por solea. However it DOES occur in Solea as well, and we have discussed many examples in the past, if you search for half compas phrases. For example:
Posts: 1956
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton
RE: Falseta counting confusion (in reply to Ricardo)
It's a bit weird that bulerías are taught so you think the accents are on 12, 3, 6, 8, 10 yet the the 6-8-10 sometimes happens on the guitar, but nearly never in palmas or other rhythmic accompaniment. I never ever thought of a half compás as a 12-1-2-3-4-5, rather a repetition of 6-7-8-9-10-11; so if I ever detect a regular compás followed by a half compás, I'd say 6-7-8-9-10-11-6-7-8-9-10-11. In a cante accompaniment situation where the singer is just doing his thing extending before the remate, I'd just keep counting the 6-11 over and over until I detect the note that signals the end.
Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Falseta counting confusion (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)
quote:
ORIGINAL: xirdneH_imiJ
It's a bit weird that bulerías are taught so you think the accents are on 12, 3, 6, 8, 10 yet the the 6-8-10 sometimes happens on the guitar, but nearly never in palmas or other rhythmic accompaniment. I never ever thought of a half compás as a 12-1-2-3-4-5, rather a repetition of 6-7-8-9-10-11; so if I ever detect a regular compás followed by a half compás, I'd say 6-7-8-9-10-11-6-7-8-9-10-11. In a cante accompaniment situation where the singer is just doing his thing extending before the remate, I'd just keep counting the 6-11 over and over until I detect the note that signals the end.
It is not “weird” when it relates to Solea…which is the main point about the song form and counting it AT ALL. But it is more the specific 1,2,3…expression that closes on 10. I remember first discovering the “secret code” there, listening to carmen Amaya’s bulerias and it all made sense. There are plenty of times count 9 is accentuated (and in fact that is exactly what the palmas are doing a lot of the time, 1,3,7,9 accents), and a falseta melody can be thought of as looping the “6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3…etc” portion where the accent is 3 and 6 repeating (12=6 if you prefer). It is arbitrary anyway until the solea llamada is expressed “1,2,3….etc”. So, I DON’T teach people to count at all until they can already play the pattern and feel the symmetry, such that, before they know any better, the student feels what will eventually be 3 and 9, the EXACT SAME WAY. I even show the rasgueado on the Bb to beginners that would effectively be like an accent on 4, before they get any fancy ideas that it always has to happen 9-10.
Later on bridging Solea and buleria is where the counting comes in to help. IN the thread I linked it is discussed with McGuire providing excellent examples.
RE: Falseta counting confusion (in reply to Ricardo)
I was waiting for u to answer, it makes perfect sense now. I went back to counting in the video by 6-11 and he ends exactly on beat 10, and if you went by 12 counting , he ends on 4. Makes sense because 6-10 is a 5 count phrase AND if you transferred this 5 count starting on 12, it would end exactly on beat 4. I'm relieved that my counting was not wrong
Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Falseta counting confusion (in reply to metalhead)
quote:
ORIGINAL: metalhead
I was waiting for u to answer, it makes perfect sense now. I went back to counting in the video by 6-11 and he ends exactly on beat 10, and if you went by 12 counting , he ends on 4. Makes sense because 6-10 is a 5 count phrase AND if you transferred this 5 count starting on 12, it would end exactly on beat 4. I'm relieved that my counting was not wrong
Cool. Just so you know, before you encounter it on your own, you will occasionally find even the 6 count phrase broken in half. I realized these situations occur typically when 3’s are being accented, or if pick up phrases occur such that what should have been a 10-12 pick up phrase is instead felt as 1-3 phrase, and 3 beats have magically evaporated. Examples found in N. Ricardo, Sabicas, Nino de Miguel, and even Paco de Lucia, all bulerias. Manolo Sanlucar has a similar thing in the sung estribillo of the fandango “Banderillas” on Tauromagia….something quite odd for a modern flamenco recording where the players tend to be more careful about compas expressions. Anyway, “anomalies” that further point to 12 counting as a guide not a rule.
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