Issues with Varnish and other stuff

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

Issues with Varnish and other stuff

the varnish of my daughters classical cheap guitar that i gave to her (and she doesnt play) , and that i re started to play something just to give usage , has something with the varnish on the back/sides like stings, and start to appear some varnish cracks on top
Maybe due to humidity , i know that i have to control because i have a better one , but i never cared about

I ´m thinkin to apply some bee wax or carnauba wax , and next some "goma laca" (french shellac) to finish , or its the other way around?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 4 2023 17:47:53

Joan Maher

Posts: 213
Joined: Dec. 3 2013

RE: Issues with Varnish and other stuff (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

Sand it back and spend a month french polishing it, otherwise just don't bother

_____________________________

Gracias!

Joan Josep Maher

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 4 2023 20:06:22

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Issues with Varnish and other stuff (in reply to Joan Maher)

French Shellac isnt proper to apply as finish and time to time if need without sanding ? i thought so (?) , read somewhere, im talkin some that allready mixed and prepared just to apply , no flakes or mix with alcool

dont know if is needed wax before or after , or at all.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 4 2023 21:50:41

Joan Maher

Posts: 213
Joined: Dec. 3 2013

RE: Issues with Varnish and other stuff (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

Just use it for fire wood.. or get some car spray.

_____________________________

Gracias!

Joan Josep Maher

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 4 2023 22:07:26

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Issues with Varnish and other stuff (in reply to Joan Maher)

:)

well the sound its quite decent , solid spruce and i think solid Mahogany

Thinkin put some upgraded tuners , lower a lot the action , and if its cheap ill go to ask to take some of the neck like a modern C , Thin necks are great. For this i have to outsource it .

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 4 2023 23:06:12

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Issues with Varnish and other stuff (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

after research , theres no way to protect the wax (with varnish) after aplied because its too fat
So after aplly the varnish i will use some liquid translucend glue (not hard) in some stops of the Top or maybe wax.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 5 2023 17:48:48

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Issues with Varnish and other stuff (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

1- Remove the strings

2- do some "masking" with painter tape (if needed)

3- light sanding "dings/dents" 4- Glue them with translucid fast glue

5- detail the dings/dents repair , remove excess of glue

6- Apply "Velatura" maybe mogno colour (not sure if with colour because it needs a very precise work ) , if decide without colour maybe dont use Velatura at all and go straight to step 7

7- try to light sanding back and sides , if colour is removed need to paint and i dont want to.. will have to aplly for sure some Velatura with colour.

8- Apply varnish on top , sides , back

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2023 11:08:02

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Issues with Varnish and other stuff (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

update , not knowing what kind of varnish was used , leave no option than sanding , so to apply the varnish i have necessary to sand first.
Sanding can be an issue , so maybe..just glue and wax 2 times per year .

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2023 15:34:15

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Issues with Varnish and other stuff (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

is it enough to do a light sanding till the gloss look is gone and then apply varnish (or other stuff like) or it has to go deeper till the wood appears and all the old varnish gone?

thinkin start with a 150gr ?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2023 12:32:05

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Issues with Varnish and other stuff (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

9. Throw in the bin.
10. donate to foroflamenco luthiery B stock collection!

Why would you spend any time on a cheap classical that no one wants or plays?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2023 8:36:44

Firefrets

Posts: 111
Joined: Mar. 22 2023

RE: Issues with Varnish and other stuff (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

Why all the hostility?

Manitas, without pictures, it's difficult to offer any advice as to what you class as 'stings'. There are many types of finish on guitars, and each has to be given different consideration. Finishes need a bit of experience.

Sometimes oddities like that can be a result of something on the finish, or under the finish etc. Moisture, oil, bacteria etc. Start by cleaning the instrument, with something safe, such as a damp rag, be it water, or naphtha / lighter fuel etc. Something that isn't going to react with any finish, then see where you are. You can then extend it to a polishing compound etc. Just keep it basic.

Waxes etc are protective, and if you want to use them, then use them last. If you start trying to re-finish a guitar, or add finish to an existing finish, it becomes complicated, as you have to melt the 2 finishes together, otherwise one will simply sit on the other.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2023 9:59:07

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Issues with Varnish and other stuff (in reply to Firefrets)

thanks for your time .

Its a cheap guitar but is better than a lot of cheap guitars , besides i gave it to my daughter and i will play more outside with no worries, and she can try playing without me worry about.
Thinkin do some cheap upgrades, medium quality tuners , lower the action , just that its a big upgrade.

Well cant find the problems on the internet , will try some photos latter , but imagine pinch the back and sides with a needle...thats what i see , or that you apply varnish but still have open poors
The top have two smalls dings like you tried to stab the varnish with a pen but didnt go to the wood just varnish i will sand a bit and glue maybe.

well i found the same issue on a internet photo

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2023 11:38:22

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Issues with Varnish and other stuff (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

the quality of photos arent good , still i think that you can understand

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q70/923/0MC2oO.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q70/923/HUswlz.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q70/923/1CPHis.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q70/923/VudF0V.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q70/922/uA8TyQ.jpg
[image] https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q70/924/Tjj37M.jpg[/image]

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2023 19:55:07

Firefrets

Posts: 111
Joined: Mar. 22 2023

RE: Issues with Varnish and other stuff (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

I can't see it under my lights but from the pictures everything looks quite trivial. Certainly the dings are tiny.

Some guitars are finished with open grain, at every level, be it factory or craftsman. It's personal taste / choice, so not a flaw as such. If it is a flaw, then it can be filled, but again I can't see. If it's pumice left overs, or fluff / polish, then of course it can be cleaned. The grazes can be worked on with a fairly dry pad after softening the area, but you're jumping in at the deep end a bit if not repaired before.

Tuners will feel much better after an old toothbrush, and a bit of lubrication is applied, but there's plenty to choose from so fill your boots in that respect.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2023 21:50:24

Firefrets

Posts: 111
Joined: Mar. 22 2023

RE: Issues with Varnish and other stuff (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

Also, 'Up The Cheap Guitars' ... yay!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2023 21:51:42

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Issues with Varnish and other stuff (in reply to Firefrets)

yes little dings arent major things , their tinny , still when i looked today the varnish from the top is cracking , 1 or 2 years (as this rythm) and its worse

What do you think the photo that is showing at the post , the large one?
for me looks like a varnish that is getting "open pour"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2023 23:39:09

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Issues with Varnish and other stuff (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

well , i just waxed the guitar(s) with daddario wax , very similar to bee wax , so the pores are close for now and the guitar is protected.

I also clean the fingerboards with daddario lemon oil to remove the dirty , and hydrate with Dunlop lotion

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2024 10:51:38

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Issues with Varnish and other stuff (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

Think it's the camera that needs repairs. Not the guitar!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2024 18:11:41

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Issues with Varnish and other stuff (in reply to Stu)

man , dont quite your day job , your jokes kind of suck

i will eat some liver with fava beans and a nice Chianti , when you improve them.

eh eh eh

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2024 22:12:41

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Issues with Varnish and other stuff (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

I wasn't joking. Guitar is fine but your photos are terrible. If you want proper help I suggest some 'in focus' and better lit photos.

Good luck

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2024 22:24:30

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Issues with Varnish and other stuff (in reply to Stu)

i use glasses and i can see perfect the open pores with lack fo varnish .

still no issue anymore , i apllied wax so the guitar is protect for now , im not going to invest money on this guitar.

I still have one tatay and tomas from the 60´s (+-) to recover (gave it to a luthier that is dificult to answer the phone..) and made a deal with another guitarmaker/luthier, i give him some old Walnut wood and he restores my tatay .
if i dont like the sound i will sell it , as well my blanca and buy a better guitar :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2024 9:14:44