RE: Nail shape for different guitar techniques

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silddx

Posts: 570
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

quote:

Are you up for it?

quote:

You don't have to prove anything to anyone except yourself.

Excellent!

Any preferences for palo?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 22 2023 7:19:50

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to devilhand)

I think the implication is that YOU have to prove something. Not silddx.

Money where your mouth is style.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 22 2023 11:38:28

JasonM

Posts: 2058
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to silddx)

Yes! Challenge!

You guys want a traditional solea falseta since we know Devilhand has some experience with that?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 22 2023 15:33:31

silddx

Posts: 570
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to JasonM)

Perfect Jason, thank you.

Is that one you posted the actual one you want us to do?

Cheers,
Nigel

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 22 2023 16:00:55

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to silddx)

It must be right?

Maybe this is the new format of foro challenges.... One on One vs battle!! Celebrity death match. Just without the death...... or the celebrity.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 22 2023 18:37:11

JasonM

Posts: 2058
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to silddx)

quote:

Is that one you posted the actual one you want us to do?

Just a suggested starting point! Devilhand could pick his weapon - pulgar, picado, compas, whatever. Doesn't have to be a duel, because he could shanghai. Others could join too and make it a brawl

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 22 2023 19:33:47

silddx

Posts: 570
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to JasonM)

Ok I had a go this evening. Did a few and posted the best one.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 22 2023 19:53:07

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to silddx)

Brilliant. Sounds really good. Your double arps sounds really even.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 22 2023 20:19:14

silddx

Posts: 570
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Stu)

That's kind of you, Stu, thank you!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 22 2023 20:46:17

orsonw

Posts: 1941
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to silddx)

Sounding good Silddx!

I also just had a go testing myself at 100bpm, speed Atrafana plays at the end of the video. A quick honest go to see where I'm at - a bit of a mess!

Double arps are a challenge for me. I learnt some bad technique/motor patterns early on, self taught, that I've never over come. I since tried with a few teachers over the years, followed the suggestions, practiced various exercises religiously but never been able to get double arps any good. I gave up on them some years ago, but started practicing for them again in the pandemic. Unless it's slow, I generally just avoid them when actually accompanying other people.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 22 2023 21:16:46

silddx

Posts: 570
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to orsonw)

Thanks Orson!

I really struggle with tremolo. I think I know why. Double arpegio without thumb is tricky. I find my i to m is fairly quick, but m to i is slower. I'm working on that. I really like the exercises in Adam del Monte's picado book. They make a lot of sense to me.

I'm sure you'll get those double arpegios. I have found going through every single motion, isolating the weak points and working on them very slowly and very relaxed has been helpful. Anyway, I'll STFU now. I know next to nowt, and you are light years beyond of what I am capable of. Thank you for posting your video!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 22 2023 22:23:14

orsonw

Posts: 1941
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to silddx)

quote:

I'm sure you'll get those double arpegios. I have found going through every single motion, isolating the weak points and working on them very slowly and very relaxed has been helpful.

Thank you. There is some very slow improvement, using methods you described and others teachers suggested, as well as sensory motor training for focal dystonia. For me it is about relaxation around thumb and middle finger. Around 2010 I developed focal dystonia after obsessively over practicing, suddenly I could no longer play what had been possible. My tremolo and arpeggio just stopped working, picado slowed right down. I had falsetas written for a dancer that I was performing with at the time that I just could no longer play. It's been a long road but the dystonia is much better, I can see that in the video I just up loaded: previously my right index would have been sticking out extending, fighting against my middle curling in over flexing.

I'm too in love with flamenco to have let that stop me and good flamenco can be played with only rasgueado, pulgar and simple back/forward arpeggios. I'm not aiming to be professional or a soloist, enjoying the journey progressing as far as I can, so it's all good.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 23 2023 9:53:49

silddx

Posts: 570
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to orsonw)

Ah that must be really trying for you. Thank goodness you are getting better.

But you're right, simpler music with beautiful expression and timing is always going to be more enjoyable to play and listen to than complex music played blandly.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 23 2023 19:39:57

JasonM

Posts: 2058
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to silddx)

Nice job Silddx! And Orson!

Silddx is here by declared winner of this round by opponent no show!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 27 2023 15:21:40

devilhand

Posts: 1606
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to JasonM)

quote:

Silddx is here by declared winner of this round by opponent no show!

In sumo they call it fusen.
Anyhow, well deserved. Btw, his guitar sounds good. Which guitar is this?

_____________________________

Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 27 2023 15:59:34

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Ricardo)

So I have been busy with a new job. And haven't had any playing time.

So has given me a chance to grow my nails out slightly to then allow me to reshape them as we have been speaking about.

I've found, as I'm approaching the desired straighter ramps that I seem to have lost too much resistance. And now I almost have no purchase on the string at times. I can't dig in as I felt I could before. Yes the lack of resistance feels much much nicer in some ways and fingers can defo move faster and kind of fell like they glide acrid the strings unhindered.

But also had the feel of sliding on ice. Lack of control or perhaps tone and volume.

Do you think that's a natural reaction to the change of shape. Or have I got me ramps wrong?

Happy to hear any thoughts. Interesting subject to me

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2023 7:48:37

devilhand

Posts: 1606
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Stu)

quote:

But also had the feel of sliding on ice.

That's good. People on the foro talk about too much about nail shape and pay less attention to nail surface which is as important as nail shape. Make it smoother. You'll feel the difference more.

quote:

Or have I got me ramps wrong?

Difficult to say anything without looking. Maybe your nail is a bit short?

_____________________________

Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2023 10:25:34

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to silddx)

Im also started do let the nails grow again... and its allways the same (poor nail quality) the people around me that stares to them , family , co workers , strangers in supermarket or everyelse where.

anyone with this issue ? people that just stares to your nails?
is f*** anoying

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2023 11:54:30

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to devilhand)

Urgh.. forgot about that. With any post one always runs the risk of being talked down to by a novice!

Thanks for your reply devilhand. I appreciate the effort but your track record on here leaves me searching for the mute button whenever you talk. (which is shame really)

Don't get me wrong, we can all potentially learn from anyone of varying levels. But you come up with some real guff most of the time.

quote:

Difficult to say anything without looking. Maybe your nail is a bit short?

I'll do a video of my new nails of you do a video of the solea tha silddx did.

quote:

anyone with this issue ? people that just stares to your nails?
is f*** anoying

Not really. or I've given up noticing. I take pride in telling folk why my nails are a bit long if they enquire.

I do sometimes wonder how many potential romantic adventures didn't work out due to them seeing the nails and think "Oh gross!!"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2023 13:35:33

Filip

Posts: 406
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to silddx)

I used to worry about nail shape and length, when I was starting to play. At first I had quite long nails but then I was figuring out that shorter is better. Also, at the beginning I filed round, but then after seeing advices on the foro to file straight I started filing straight and it's better.

I do file a little bit differently from what Ricardo described though. I think it is because of the shape of my nails and fingertips, I almost don't have an arc and my middle finger nail kind of breaks in the middle along the arc. Unfortunately I was biting my nails constantly since I was 5 or 6, up until 16 or 17 when I heard Paco for the first time and decided I want to learn to play. It was literary that moment when I completely stoped biting, nothing helped before that.

So in my case I file straight, but the angle of filing is very close to 90 degrees wrt the nail/finger when it's straight. After that I just give them a light touch on the edges so that I don't have very sharp edges on each finger, with an exception of the middle finger edge on the index side which I need to round much more because finger flesh on that side is smaller than the other side. If I don't do that, when I play that edge often gets stuck in the string.

Here are some photos. On the last one you can see better the asymmetry of the flesh on my middle finger.
When they grow up a bit I'll do exactly as Ricardo shows and post again.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2023 13:44:14

devilhand

Posts: 1606
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Stu)

quote:

But you come up with some real guff most of the time.

If you think the importance of nail surface is guff, focus only on nail shape and don't ever think about nail surface because it's devilish.

_____________________________

Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2023 13:57:43

Stu

Posts: 2537
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

up until 16 or 17 when I heard Paco for the first time and decided I want to learn to play. It was literary that moment when I completely stoped biting, nothing helped before that.

This is great!

new cure for kids who bite thier nails!!

btw thanks for taking time to share your nail pics

quote:

If you think the importance of nail surface is guff

I never said that.
I don't think its guff and thats why its a shame you've developed a certain reputation.
A stopped clock is still right twice a day.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2023 14:13:19

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Filip)

you also have "wavy " on the surface of the nail , mine are worst .
in my research those sintoms are lack of something , like some minerals and or vitamins , in some cases i think auto imune disease (my case if related)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2023 15:02:36

Ricardo

Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Stu)

quote:

But also had the feel of sliding on ice. Lack of control or perhaps time and volume.

yes exactly, it feels weird at first since you have lost that resistance that you used to “push against”. Now there is no resistance you realize the importance of PLANTING the finger, or rather, preparing it on the string. Staccato practice gets you there. You can also try the grease to feel the ease of getting the grip for arpegio and tremolo. But you still want to work now on the accuracy of hitting the “pocket” when planting, because it is the only slight resistance you need right there where flesh and nail meet.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2023 16:55:06

Ricardo

Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Filip)

quote:

Here are some photos. On the last one you can see better the asymmetry of the flesh on my middle finger.
When they grow up a bit I'll do exactly as Ricardo shows and post again.

In your case, the nails grow very flat and wavy, so you are going at it at 90 degree to keep em short by necessity. Honestly, if you try the glue as I described your nails will form the perfect arc and you will see the huge difference for the better. But you are not using glue and are obviously adverse to it, which means perhaps, you are not playing for dancers regularly? I promise if you just try it you will see, and if you simply don’t like it you can go back to this if it works for you.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2023 16:59:28

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Ricardo)

Ricardo , are those sides correct? should them exist at all ?

do you recomend some nails strength product mate not gloss , easy to find in Europe?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2023 18:01:25

Ricardo

Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

quote:

Ricardo , are those sides correct? should them exist at all ?

Well, sort of. He has rounded them where as on my m and a finger for example, it is a sharp angle on thumb side. Because the string never gets behind there, it sits on the line in planted position. I suspect that since he doesn’ t use glue, and his nails have very little 3d arc compared to mine but are more flat, that he is allowing the string to sit back behind those sides and is therefore rounding them off. If he used glue he would see that is not necessary. See this video where the string sits when I am planting on the string:

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2023 19:53:42

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Ricardo)

thanks Ricardo , you use glue? it doesnt seem , isnt glue only used with plastic and other stuff that spanish gipsies use to make somekind of prostetic in the nail?

which glue do you use and how to?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2023 20:51:04

Filip

Posts: 406
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: Nail shape for different guitar ... (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

In your case, the nails grow very flat and wavy, so you are going at it at 90 degree to keep em short by necessity. Honestly, if you try the glue as I described your nails will form the perfect arc and you will see the huge difference for the better. But you are not using glue and are obviously adverse to it, which means perhaps, you are not playing for dancers regularly? I promise if you just try it you will see, and if you simply don’t like it you can go back to this if it works for you.

I do not play for dancers, that is correct observation. In fact I never did, except only once with a group of guitar players from a local peña.
I am more than eager to try the glue and do some experiments. Regarding that, is CA glue the same as supe glue? Could you please help me identify the correct one, I am afraid not to mess things up, so is something like this or maybe this the thing I need ?

quote:

This is great!

new cure for kids who bite thier nails!!

btw thanks for taking time to share your nail pics

Hehe, yes. It was so long ago that I don't think about it at all or remember it anymore, but it was actually very big deal for me.
And you're welcome, I hope it helped.

quote:

you also have "wavy " on the surface of the nail , mine are worst .
in my research those sintoms are lack of something , like some minerals and or vitamins , in some cases i think auto imune disease (my case if related)

Sorry to hear that. I never payed attention to ir, to me it was kind of normal and I thought it's because of years of biting the nails and destroying the cuticles and flesh around it.

quote:

He has rounded them where as on my m and a finger for example, it is a sharp angle on thumb side. Because the string never gets behind there, it sits on the line in planted position. I suspect that since he doesn’ t use glue, and his nails have very little 3d arc compared to mine but are more flat, that he is allowing the string to sit back behind those sides and is therefore rounding them off. If he used glue he would see that is not necessary.

I think this is correct. I round the edges a bit because otherwise the string would often get stuck between flesh and the nail when I play (especially the middle finger and that side towards the thumb). But I should experiment with this again. The other reason is that, since my nails are mostly flat, without rounding the edges they become very very sharp and as a consequence I have an uncomfortable feeling in the wrist because I can feel the edges all the time rubbing against other fingers. I also accidentally scratch and destroy things around me (once it happened with my fine leather dress shoes, they still have a scratch unfortunately).
So I will do some experiments, with filing and with the glue, and post back.