Cante flamenco

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Cante flamenco

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Morante

Posts: 2182
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

Cante flamenco

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 6 2023 15:58:28

devilhand

Posts: 1606
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Cante flamenco (in reply to Morante)

I haven't paid much attention to toque of Manuel Morao lately. What a player. Can anyone see what he's doing at 1:04-1:10?

I can only guess. Sweeping down with pulgar and the left hand fingers do some heavy slurs?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 6 2023 18:40:00

orsonw

Posts: 1938
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Cante flamenco (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

I haven't paid much attention to toque of Manuel Morao lately. What a player. Can anyone see what he's doing at 1:04-1:10?

I think that's his brother Juan Morao.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 6 2023 19:58:22

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Cante flamenco (in reply to orsonw)

quote:

ORIGINAL: orsonw

quote:

I haven't paid much attention to toque of Manuel Morao lately. What a player. Can anyone see what he's doing at 1:04-1:10?

I think that's his brother Juan Morao.

Yes, Moraito’s dad. And Borrico is singing Soleá not bulerías.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2023 12:06:24

johnnefastis

Posts: 631
Joined: Jan. 10 2012

RE: Cante flamenco (in reply to Morante)

Awesome! does anyone know why Borrico starts singing before the Juan finishes the variations/remates?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2023 12:30:36

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Cante flamenco (in reply to johnnefastis)

quote:

ORIGINAL: johnnefastis

Awesome! does anyone know why Borrico starts singing before the Juan finishes the variations/remates?

He doesn’t. The first letra ends and he allows the falseta to close with the remate E arp, then the marked descending chords 1,2,3, are the signal to start singing if he wants or not. After the two lines of verse, Juan wrongly anticipates a respiro that didn’t happen to be in Borricos head, he simply connects the the 3rd line of verse in the next compas as normal. The respiro that often happens is NOT a requirement of cante, and must be done with caution. AS you can see Juan has to continue the variation that he started, UNDER the third sung line, forcing Juan to deliver the cambio chords (G7-C) super late (on the 1,2,3 of the 4th cycle).

Nothing in what I wrote above is to be considered a “mistake” of any kind in context here. Only in dance world of set choreography and set letras would the above be considered “incorrect” and a forced repeat of the entire letra in order for the musicians to get on task. This sort of thing has forced an evolution to occur where these moments are suddenly jarring to folks used to square box cante and respiros, perfect count 10 remates, etc. This forced evolution via dance accompaniments (the working environment honestly), has robbed the cante/guitar of such freedoms of expression as shown here (ironically the second letra is totally cuadrao despite the missing respiro).

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2023 13:51:37

devilhand

Posts: 1606
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Cante flamenco (in reply to Ricardo)

Any comment on shredding at 1:04-1:10?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2023 14:11:19

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Cante flamenco (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilhand

Any comment on shredding at 1:04-1:10?

By comment is that it sounds like the basic Dm/F descending pull off standard resolving first to E, then to C. Then slower pull offs. It is maybe the most standard solea thing I have ever heard in my life outside of a basic E arpegio, as it defines the phrygian scale/cadence concept (that being a descending F lydian resolving to E major, having nothing to do with synthetic scale nonsense and a big etc). The fact he executes it with pulgar instead of ima arp is totally arbitrary and beside the musical point.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2023 14:29:07

Morante

Posts: 2182
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Cante flamenco (in reply to Ricardo)

!Ole Ricardo¡ I suppose that's why most people, even on a "flamenco foro" have trouble with the real thing

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2023 16:19:36

devilhand

Posts: 1606
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Cante flamenco (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

The fact he executes it with pulgar instead of ima arp is totally arbitrary and beside the musical point

Obviously, draging down with pulgar will sound punchy comparing to tirando sound of ima arpegio.

At 0:11 a similar situation but in reverse. Instead of ami arpegio he does arrastre with his index and middle finger.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2023 21:38:28

johnnefastis

Posts: 631
Joined: Jan. 10 2012

RE: Cante flamenco (in reply to devilhand)

Amazing analasis, thanks Ricardo. Great to see these beautiful old videos and learn from them. Its defintely a way of playing together that seems to have been lost.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2023 22:47:50

estebanana

Posts: 9359
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Cante flamenco (in reply to Morante)

I like Borrico and Juan Talega with those gravelly voices

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2023 6:50:47

estebanana

Posts: 9359
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Cante flamenco (in reply to johnnefastis)

quote:

ORIGINAL: johnnefastis

Amazing analasis, thanks Ricardo. Great to see these beautiful old videos and learn from them. Its defintely a way of playing together that seems to have been lost.

It’d be unlost if 2/3rds of the dumb bastards that try to get a fast picado would spend the time learning to sing instead.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2023 6:52:17

estebanana

Posts: 9359
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Cante flamenco (in reply to Morante)

For the podcast listeners- a grab bag of Jerez stuff, excellent Taranto by Torta

@ 31:00 minutes in Borrico por Buleria -

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/duendeando/id290327689?i=1000616426145

Essentially a podcast episode that’s some ‘Jerez greatest hits’ but you’ll suffer through it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2023 3:54:48