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I have a basic question and am new to Flamenco progressions. In American blues, for instance, it is recognized that if you are playing in the key of E, you can play the E minor pentatonic scale over the chord changes of A and B (the IV and V chords). While you can play the Am and B7 scale over those chords, you can play a very good-sounding lead that fits the progression musically by just keeping what you do in the original key.
Is the same true in Flamenco? If you are playing the Andalusian cadence in Am, my understanding is that you can play notes using the Am scale and also the E Phrygian scale. Is that correct? When you change chords to the G, F or E variants, can you still keep playing notes from the Am or E Phrygian over those chord changes? Or, in Flamenco, do you have to change the scale to match the new chord change?
Posts: 15755
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Can you play one scale (Phrygian... (in reply to bestremera)
quote:
ORIGINAL: bestremera
I have a basic question and am new to Flamenco progressions. In American blues, for instance, it is recognized that if you are playing in the key of E, you can play the E minor pentatonic scale over the chord changes of A and B (the IV and V chords). While you can play the Am and B7 scale over those chords, you can play a very good-sounding lead that fits the progression musically by just keeping what you do in the original key.
Is the same true in Flamenco? If you are playing the Andalusian cadence in Am, my understanding is that you can play notes using the Am scale and also the E Phrygian scale. Is that correct? When you change chords to the G, F or E variants, can you still keep playing notes from the Am or E Phrygian over those chord changes? Or, in Flamenco, do you have to change the scale to match the new chord change?
Thank you! Bob
Hi. This is a pretty typical view guitar players from other genres adopt when first getting into Flamenco. Just like blues, yes you learn at the beginning ONE SCALE fits, even though there are clashing notes (G against G# when you hear that E chord, and D natural against D# when you hear the B7). As you get more advanced with Blues, you realize the important thing is not your noodling nonsense soloing, but rather, the RHYTHM and the FORMAL STRUTURE of the blues. By that I mean 12 bar blues, swing feel etc. YOu have to know WHERE THE HECK in the blues structure you are, and once you do, you suddenly abandon that silly beginner scale thing and target the actual correct notes that fit the specific chords you are on in that moment. Remember that 5 note scale is a safe way to navigate the form for beginners because the other 2 notes might clash. Later you start using the missing notes to great bluesy effect.
Flamenco is no different, in the sense, it has rhythm (compas) and FORMAL STRUCTURE (the song forms called palos, associated melodies and chords), and therefore, the same concept as blues where you have to necessarily change your scale/melody to fit the progression better, and adopt the correct rhythmic phrasing.
Now, unlike blues where you can start with noodling nonsense improvisations to get a sense of the rhythm, we learn flamenco (or you should be anyway) via note for note phrases (falsetas) and compas patterns (chord and rasgueado combinations) that define the specific forms clearly. Over time you will get a repertoire of compas and falsetas that function correctly, and use scales or melodies that change notes (not a single scale).
If you want to see the heated discussions, here was a recent one:
RE: Can you play one scale (Phrygian... (in reply to bestremera)
quote:
When you change chords to the G, F or E variants, can you still keep playing notes from the Am or E Phrygian over those chord changes? Or, in Flamenco, do you have to change the scale to match the new chord change?
Posts: 15755
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Can you play one scale (Phrygian... (in reply to devilhand)
quote:
Rumba is not flamenco.
Yes it is. It is one formal structure, and remates occur in the manner of Tientos/tangos/Tanguillo. In most dances in 2 or 4 such as farruca, Tiento, Taranto etc, Rumba is a necessary component of the escobillas (footwork sections) and ending cantes. Get a teacher.
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