Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
|
|
|
A different way to look at guitar
|
You are logged in as Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic: none
|
|
Login  | |
|
   
Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
|
 A different way to look at guitar
|
|
|
I have been reading "The Pianist's Talent," by Harold Taylor, and it has some very good ideas. The basic thesis is that the best way to improve your piano playing ability is not by mastering the instrument, but on learning how to use your body more efficiently. Its thesis springs from a study of piano virtuosi and what they have in common, as well as the studies of French piano teacher Thiberge and the Alexander Technique.
It turns out that piano virtuosi have several things in common: They showed their talent young, their talent sprang up more or less sponataneously, and they have "expanding" posture.
If you remember, several months ago I was asking some questions around here, especially of our resident virtuosi like Todd and Grisha. Like the virtuosi in the book, they described their early experiences as "play". Playing guitar was easy and fun for them, analagous to other childhood play such as building blocks or mud cakes or what have you.
The fact that the virtuosi's abilities seem mostly inherent is daunting and depressing. But apparently most of them could play at a high level from the first few times they stepped up to the keyboard. And by the time they were ten, they were playing better than most people would ever play, no matter how much time spent. Again, this reminds me of Grisha--if you see his video of him performing at age 9 on his website, you may feel the same way.
"Expanding" posture is a way of being of using your body, which has characteristics of an open chest, wide shoulders, head held high, limbs tending to be held and used away from the body. Most movements or gestures tend to move away from the body. The opposite tendency, "contracting" posture, would feature a stooped or hunched or slouched spine, limbs tending to be held close in, and movements tending to pull toward the body.
Studies and pictures of the virtuosi showed, at least superficially, that all of them had traits of expanding posture. Of course one caveat is that these pictures were from a different era, where perhaps posture was emphasized more as a mark of civilization!
The contention of the author is that expanding posture is a mark and a prerequisite to high levels of "coordination", the ultimate ability that determines instrumental skill. Expanding posture is the natural state of human beings, is how we were "designed" to function, and by using it we can maximize our coordination and thus ease, efficiency, and skill. Contracting posture is a deficiency that degrades our performance and limits the heights to which we can reach.
It's certainly an interesting idea and it can do no harm to apply it to one's practicing. I have done some experimenting and realized that I do indeed have "contracting" posture. I tend to slouch, keep my limbs close to me, and pull. By keeping full awareness and playing the guitar in expanding ways, I have felt an increase in ease and coordinations. I recommend trying it and seeing what happens, as well as the book: "The Pianist's Talent" by Harold Taylor.
_____________________________
Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/migueldemariaZ
Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Apr. 4 2006 15:26:03
 |
|
vasileos
Posts: 28
Joined: Jan. 19 2005
|
|
RE: A different way to look at guitar (in reply to seanm)
|
|
|
|
This idea is also similar to Aikido (most other Martial Arts as well, I believe), in that one aims for expanding out in ki (energy). Big movements, extension, moving form center and connection is the goal. In my experience with martial arts (however limited), there are those who begin training with more ability or tendency to move in an open and expansive manner from center with more extension. Perhaps this is similar in playing an instrument, some start off with more "natural ability". However, one can retrain or relearn how to move in Aikido, however it takes diligence in practice and it takes time. From what I have read, Alexander Technique is similar in retraining one how to move more efficiently and improve posture. Like practice in techinique, with the metronome, and with aire, practice in moving efficiently with extension is important as well.
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Apr. 4 2006 16:51:37
|
|
gshaviv
Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel
|
|
RE: A different way to look at guitar (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
|
|
|
Miguel, you read too much!
My first reaction is its a load of crap, but I can't pass any judgement until I read the book, so I won't.
Typically though with these kind of things, the author had a theory in mind he wanted to proove, and only presents the data that supports the theory and ignores the data that doesn't. Look at Edgar's point regarding Sabicas.
To the point, I think that the "open" posture is associated with physical fitness. I know about myself that I used to crouch against the computer all day (I still do) and I had a bent, shoulders inwards posture. Then I started to go to the gym and worked my back and shoulder muscles. My posture improved. I'm now standing more erect and with more "open" shoulders. Its not something I noticed at first, but several people told be that and then I started noticing for myself.
Guitar playing is physically demanding, and I supposed piano playing is too. It requires you to place your hands in sometimes unnatural position for long periods of time. I think if you are physically fit, the physical difficulty of playing goes away and you can better focus on what you play rather then how you play. I beleive this is what makes the difference, not the posture itself, rather the physical fitness the posture implies.
_____________________________
Guy
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Apr. 5 2006 20:23:12
|
|
Ricardo
Posts: 14845
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
|
|
RE: A different way to look at guitar (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
|
|
|
quote:
best way to improve your piano playing ability is not by mastering the instrument, but on learning how to use your body more efficiently.
Really? You think that there is something to that honestly? the "best" way is NOT mastering the instrument but...come on man.
quote:
The fact that the virtuosi's abilities seem mostly inherent is daunting and depressing.
I have always been inspired by virtuoso players. I think if you keep focusing on this elusive "thing" they all must possess that the rest of us don't, it is making an excuse for not putting in the required effort. Like I can say to myself "I can NEVER play like Paco because he has an inherant abilty that I don't posess". But then you see Grisha. "Well ok, either he has the same gift or good posture". Whatever it is, it is the same as saying they have something I don't, but that is a way to justify my own lack of drive to match their level of excellence. How can you achieve it then? Hard work. Everything takes time, but to be efficient you have to not waste time on the wrong things. Personally, I don't have that time and drive at this stage. My improvements are on a small scale, only noticeable to me and my mom maybe.
Nunez started guitar at age 12 with no flamencos in his family. He worked hard on his own, and still does because he loves it. He analyzed it and worked on what is important to him. McLaughlin said he still works on it, still learning. That is MASTERING the instrument. Posture? Ok, Bill Evens, is he not considered a piano viruoso? And my favorite vid of Grisha, his head and neck are hunched over the guitar for a lot of the bulerias. How is that good posture?
Best way to master an instrument is to go ahead and do it. Life is too short to not be PLAYING music as much as possible.
Ricardo
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Apr. 6 2006 3:48:13
|
|
Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
|
|
RE: A different way to look at guitar (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
|
|
|
Hmm, well I don't see why paying attention to your movements and posture and focused practice are going to separate things. In fact, according to the book, working on general body use requires extreme awareness. Also, the book was about classical piano virtuosos, mostly from the 18th and 19th centuries.
I have noticed that guitarists in general have bad posture, and I wonder if it's simply the nature of curling around a somewhat awkward instrument.
When you say focused practice, do you mean to say that the position aka posture of the body is irrelevant? Do just what comes naturally and then just keep doing it over and over in a focused way? It seems to me that one would want to improve the mechanics of it, especially if there seems to be a block somewhere. In fact that's the point of studying virtuosi, and even asking questions of people like Grisha, to find out what makes them tick and see if any of it can be profitably emulated.
_____________________________
Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/migueldemariaZ
Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Apr. 6 2006 13:33:53
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts
|
|
|
Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET |
0.09375 secs.
|
Printable Version
