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Hey Guys, aside from this being confusing, primarily because the golpes do not fall on the accents. That being said, I noticed a pattern that generally the upstrokes fall on the accents, though this does not seem to be a rule. When I hear a Bulerias falsetta, I learn but now I’m really struggling to break it down to fit in the compass. Basically my micro timing is off with the upstrokes and what not. What are the rules to Bulerias? How do you apply the accents to the falsettas?
I'm not a great player, but I know exactly what you're talking about. When that happens to me, it's usually when I see it in Tab. So I generally find the recording and listen closely how it sounds, and then work slowly and methodically trying to mimic that against a foot tap, or metronome.
It's a painful process for me since I'm not super fast at learning, but generally if I simply work at it slowly, and repeatedly, while knowing what it is "supposed" to sound like, I can generally get it.
I think the key really is knowing what it is supposed to sound like, if you're just looking at a tab it's much harder.
I spent a good part of the last two days learning to play two 12 beat cycles out of a friends Bulerias, simply because he plays a thumb downstroke strum, which I am not use to playing the same way and for whatever reason it was completely derailing my sense of time. So I just practice slowly, and repeatedly, and probably still am playing it wrong :) But it's more in time.
Hey Guys, aside from this being confusing, primarily because the golpes do not fall on the accents. That being said, I noticed a pattern that generally the upstrokes fall on the accents, though this does not seem to be a rule. When I hear a Bulerias falsetta, I learn but now I’m really struggling to break it down to fit in the compass. Basically my micro timing is off with the upstrokes and what not. What are the rules to Bulerias? How do you apply the accents to the falsettas?
As a teacher I make two analogies for understanding rhythm. First of all, buleria has tons of compas patterns, and you need to learn many but treat each one as a separate entity and master each one at tempo with a metronome before moving on or connecting it to another. Other flamenco forms can get away with one or two basic patterns you can repeat, but buleria gets boring quickly with only one or two. And yes some of these patterns will have odd mixes of up and down strokes, glopes, rasgueados etc. So try to focus and learn each pattern note for note exact.
So here comes the analogy with the note for note thing. First of all, depending on how you think of beats and counts versus subdivisions, the basic math is 2. You will have on beats and off beats. And you must be aware of where either one is relative to what you are actually physically doing. So imagine your notes or strums or golpe etc, are a ball on a roulette wheel...on beats are black and up beats are red slots, and the ball MUST fall into one of the two slots no matter what. And the colors are evenly spaced. So sometimes you are only dealing with reds, meaning contra Tiempo...and it is just as even as the black slots. But to change from one slot color to another you need an odd number, move one space, or three, or 5 etc. If you have even spaces you end up on the same color. Also, pauses or spaces might occur and you have to allow a full slot to float by before sticking the ball into the correct slot. Metronome really really helps teach this (not a flamenco metronome a basic click). Also becoming aware of tempo ranges is important.
So your up stroke could be in black or red spots, it doesn't matter, but they are specifically numbered and you need to adhere to the math concept in order to feel the time correctly. And you actually don't want to count at first, but be aware what is on the beat and what is off and stick it like glue. The ball does not have the luxury to land anywhere other than red or black.
The other analogy is a bouncing basket ball, you have to keep dribbling it and there are only two positions again, the up position that hits your hand, and the down position on the ground. Again no matter what your technique or musical note or space that is happening, it has to hit one of the two positions in order to maintain the feeling. So sometimes you are hitting only the contra again, it is the evenly timed up portion of the ball movement that hits the hand...and it is easy to maintain so long as you understand where the ground is relative to that.
About accents....these things have no meaning and can confuse you because they are emergent properties of controlling the elements I just described. Again, if you are playing the pattern as it should be played, including DYNAMICS while keeping the bouncing ball or roulette wheel each stroke or note or space, the accents naturally appear. So don't worry about them, keep your eye on the ball and you will be good.
Much later, after realizing you can keep the ball in play without thinking about it, you can switch off into auto mode, and start to focus attention on specific accents to taste. Again, accents are only louder relative dynamics regardless what slot they happen to fall into.
Hey Guys, aside from this being confusing, primarily because the golpes do not fall on the accents. That being said, I noticed a pattern that generally the upstrokes fall on the accents, though this does not seem to be a rule. When I hear a Bulerias falsetta, I learn but now I’m really struggling to break it down to fit in the compass. Basically my micro timing is off with the upstrokes and what not. What are the rules to Bulerias? How do you apply the accents to the falsettas?
As a teacher I make two analogies for understanding rhythm. First of all, buleria has tons of compas patterns, and you need to learn many but treat each one as a separate entity and master each one at tempo with a metronome before moving on or connecting it to another. Other flamenco forms can get away with one or two basic patterns you can repeat, but buleria gets boring quickly with only one or two. And yes some of these patterns will have odd mixes of up and down strokes, glopes, rasgueados etc. So try to focus and learn each pattern note for note exact.
So here comes the analogy with the note for note thing. First of all, depending on how you think of beats and counts versus subdivisions, the basic math is 2. You will have on beats and off beats. And you must be aware of where either one is relative to what you are actually physically doing. So imagine your notes or strums or golpe etc, are a ball on a roulette wheel...on beats are black and up beats are red slots, and the ball MUST fall into one of the two slots no matter what. And the colors are evenly spaced. So sometimes you are only dealing with reds, meaning contra Tiempo...and it is just as even as the black slots. But to change from one slot color to another you need an odd number, move one space, or three, or 5 etc. If you have even spaces you end up on the same color. Also, pauses or spaces might occur and you have to allow a full slot to float by before sticking the ball into the correct slot. Metronome really really helps teach this (not a flamenco metronome a basic click). Also becoming aware of tempo ranges is important.
So your up stroke could be in black or red spots, it doesn't matter, but they are specifically numbered and you need to adhere to the math concept in order to feel the time correctly. And you actually don't want to count at first, but be aware what is on the beat and what is off and stick it like glue. The ball does not have the luxury to land anywhere other than red or black.
The other analogy is a bouncing basket ball, you have to keep dribbling it and there are only two positions again, the up position that hits your hand, and the down position on the ground. Again no matter what your technique or musical note or space that is happening, it has to hit one of the two positions in order to maintain the feeling. So sometimes you are hitting only the contra again, it is the evenly timed up portion of the ball movement that hits the hand...and it is easy to maintain so long as you understand where the ground is relative to that.
About accents....these things have no meaning and can confuse you because they are emergent properties of controlling the elements I just described. Again, if you are playing the pattern as it should be played, including DYNAMICS while keeping the bouncing ball or roulette wheel each stroke or note or space, the accents naturally appear. So don't worry about them, keep your eye on the ball and you will be good.
Much later, after realizing you can keep the ball in play without thinking about it, you can switch off into auto mode, and start to focus attention on specific accents to taste. Again, accents are only louder relative dynamics regardless what slot they happen to fall into.
So with the metronome it’s best to not use beat groupings? Just use a simple single click to keep the beat? Also if i understand correctly, what you are saying is that the upstrokes will always fall on either an even or odd numbered beat (red or black), but always the same for that particular rhythm? So if i use the upstroke as reference, it will either fall on an odd or even numbered beat, but whichever it falls on it will be the same for that rhythm?. Or based on what you’re saying, i can use a golpe as reference to which beat im on aswell? I’ve been using the compass app to try to understand this, then basically using the upstroke to determine where I am in the compass. is this a bad idea?
what you are saying is that the upstrokes will always fall on either an even or odd numbered beat (red or black)
yes. For the basic groove or soniquete, not fancy rasgueados necessarily.
quote:
but always the same for that particular rhythm? So if i use the upstroke as reference, it will either fall on an odd or even numbered beat, but whichever it falls on it will be the same for that rhythm?.
NO! It depends on the specific pattern. For example, a standard basic: A chord or A add b9 with G on top E string: Up stroke (black or on click) pull off (red) tap (black) up stroke (RED!) tap (black) space (Red) Bb chord index flick stroke (black) space or hold (red) tap (black) space or hold (red) tap (black) space (red) Up stroke (black) pull off Bb-A bass note (red) tap (black) up stroke (RED) tap (black) space (red) AMI down triplet (covers black AND red) index up (Black) space or mute (red) tap (black) silence (red) REPEAT
If you stick to the perfect even and regular black and red alternation, the accent and feeling emerges natural from the pattern itself. Note that some up strokes are black, others are red. When spaces are red you can eventually ignore them just feel them there and concentrate on only black to black. The triplet that covers the red slot is another spot where you will have to get used to black to black as a feeling of time.
As a general rule, people make mistakes with rhythm (rushing or dragging) because they have not allowed the proper placement and duration of a red slot relative to a target black. (red before black slots tend to create rushing, and reds that immediately follow blacks create dragging if not treated with equal care). It would be loosing control of the ball, which is not the ground's fault normally.
what you are saying is that the upstrokes will always fall on either an even or odd numbered beat (red or black)
yes. For the basic groove or soniquete, not fancy rasgueados necessarily.
quote:
but always the same for that particular rhythm? So if i use the upstroke as reference, it will either fall on an odd or even numbered beat, but whichever it falls on it will be the same for that rhythm?.
NO! It depends on the specific pattern. For example, a standard basic: A chord or A add b9 with G on top E string: Up stroke (black or on click) pull off (red) tap (black) up stroke (RED!) tap (black) space (Red) Bb chord index flick stroke (black) space or hold (red) tap (black) space or hold (red) tap (black) space (red) Up stroke (black) pull off Bb-A bass note (red) tap (black) up stroke (RED) tap (black) space (red) AMI down triplet (covers black AND red) index up (Black) space or mute (red) tap (black) silence (red) REPEAT
If you stick to the perfect even and regular black and red alternation, the accent and feeling emerges natural from the pattern itself. Note that some up strokes are black, others are red. When spaces are red you can eventually ignore them just feel them there and concentrate on only black to black. The triplet that covers the red slot is another spot where you will have to get used to black to black as a feeling of time.
As a general rule, people make mistakes with rhythm (rushing or dragging) because they have not allowed the proper placement and duration of a red slot relative to a target black. (red before black slots tend to create rushing, and reds that immediately follow blacks create dragging if not treated with equal care). It would be loosing control of the ball, which is not the ground's fault normally.
Yes this is sort of starting to make sense, though it’s definately hard to describe so i appreciate all the effort. Would you say that it’s wrong to pick out specific key points in the Falsetta to determine where you are at? So basically just to know the Falsetta well, and know where a particular upstroke, golpe or other key movement is? For example, i could analyze the movement at each beat and just make mental note of what is happening at every 3, 3, 2, 2, 2 beats or 3, 4, 1, 2 (depending on the falsetta) in order to keep track and help feel the rhythm?
On a side note, in your example, im assuming black are all the metronome clicks. I guess this is a stupid question, but is it really necesary/possible to play this flawlessly on time, having no catch up or slow down in the falsetta? I guess that would be the goal, it just sound extremely hard to make it possible at 200 BPM.
Edit: I just thought of something else, what if I use my metronome to identify the 2nd beat of each section? I use a digital one, so beat 1 is red, beat 2 is green, beat 3 is red, beat 4 is green for example, it would put what you posted directly into practice.
On a side note, in your example, im assuming black are all the metronome clicks. I guess this is a stupid question, but is it really necesary/possible to play this flawlessly on time, having no catch up or slow down in the falsetta? I guess that would be the goal, it just sound extremely hard to make it possible at 200 BPM.
Edit: I just thought of something else, what if I use my metronome to identify the 2nd beat of each section? I use a digital one, so beat 1 is red, beat 2 is green, beat 3 is red, beat 4 is green for example, it would put what you posted directly into practice.
Before I address the quote, the answer to your previous, is it possible, the answer is YES that is the name of the game. Of course there will be arguments about becoming machine like etc, but the idea is to be even and controlled....sometimes you can create degrees of "swing" by the regularity of the "wrong" placement of the red slots. But that is very advanced and again yes it can be done by humans.
Also the idea of mentally taking note off which black slots are the "accents" of the 12 count is not wrong, but you don't want to rely on that thing....that is when you hear people playing mathematically correctly but they are very uneven and the feeling is missing totally. And that is the danger of the flamenco metronome....target shooting accents hit or miss is not rhythm. First learn the basic 1-2 groove and if you are not adding or subtracting notes or spaces the correct "accent" emerges naturally.
So you don't need to keep the 12 count in order at first just the correct sequence of operations. I would recommend simplifying to simple every 2 counts (12,2,4,6,8,10) keeping in mind there is a simpler symmetry there where only 3 accents are needed (6,8,10 repeat)
IN that sense you will eventually assign the click to THOSE accents only, and cut the metronome click in HALF. (around 90-115 BPM, every other BLACK slot expressed).
If you MUST, you can have the accented click once every 3, but honestly not a big deal for beginners, that is more for when you are advanced enough working with tricky phrasing that goes counter the normal patterns.
The Swing concept came to mind as Ricardo mentioned. If you’re listening to someone play the up stroke pattern, and looking at it on paper in written form trying to understand , it can blur the lines. It’s something to add once you get the straight rigid time down because it is essential to the feel of bulerias. It’s just something to be aware of
for example I’m hearing in my head Vicente Amigo or Antonio Rey do those Ramates with up strokes and syncopation and swing, it’s such a thing of feeling that you pick up after a while. And adds all the Fun!!!
The Swing concept came to mind as Ricardo mentioned. If you’re listening to someone play the up stroke pattern, and looking at it on paper in written form trying to understand , it can blur the lines. It’s something to add once you get the straight rigid time down because it is essential to the feel of bulerias. It’s just something to be aware of
for example I’m hearing in my head Vicente Amigo or Antonio Rey do those Ramates with up strokes and syncopation and swing, it’s such a thing of feeling that you pick up after a while. And adds all the Fun!!!
I understand what you guys are saying about the feeling now. I confess that I like to use the compass app to help me understand the subdivision, at least initially. Though with my practiced falsettas I can feel the beat groupings, and specifically the beat. I can actually tap my foot to what I feel, though this seems to throw me off coordination, sort of like patting the head and rubbing the stomach at the same time. At any rate I think im starting to understanding what you guys are saying about feeling it and grooving. So I played with the compass app in the background as it also plays a compass track, I glance back every other falsetta and found I was pretty close to the app, thats a good sign. What Ricardo said about the beat groupings of two, you can really feel this aswell. I must say though that flamenco must be very hard to teach. It's like trying to explain intuition, you just get it, you feel it but to teach it as a whole different ball game.
I can actually tap my foot to what I feel, though this seems to throw me off coordination, sort of like patting the head and rubbing the stomach at the same time.
Well, that's your problem, right there. You need to START with the foot tap as your foundation, your base, and build whatever else you play with the guitar on top of that.
FWIW when I started out with flamenco I tried to learn to read music (because, erroneously, I believed I would need to, but what flamenco guitarists write out and publish scores? what flamenco singers [or dancers] give guitarists scores to accompany?), I learned all the counting, and tried to make everything fit to that (my current pet hate is teachers who count and play at the same time, which means I then can't hear what they are playing.... anyone can learn basic counting and if the teacher counts them in and then just plays in time any student can then figure out what beat things fall on, if they feel they need to...), and pretty much none of that "worked".
What did work was to feel the rhythm/s from countless hours of listening and practising palmas and foot tapping, and then to try to lay really simple compas patterns and falsetas over that. I was lucky that I started sitting on on dance classes pretty early on, and got solo compas CD's from dance teachers where I could listen to basic compas played on guitar over and over...
....and the best lessons I have ever had were from a teacher in Spain (who btw had lessons from PDL's dad as a kid and accompanied Camarón as a young pro) who didn't count anything, and taught melodically and rhythmically, so everything was heard melodically and related to the foot tap. He would say, "before the foot tap" or "after the foot tap" or "on the foot tap" and that was it....
I can actually tap my foot to what I feel, though this seems to throw me off coordination, sort of like patting the head and rubbing the stomach at the same time.
Well, that's your problem, right there. You need to START with the foot tap as your foundation, your base, and build whatever else you play with the guitar on top of that.
FWIW when I started out with flamenco I tried to learn to read music (because, erroneously, I believed I would need to, but what flamenco guitarists write out and publish scores? what flamenco singers [or dancers] give guitarists scores to accompany?), I learned all the counting, and tried to make everything fit to that (my current pet hate is teachers who count and play at the same time, which means I then can't hear what they are playing.... anyone can learn basic counting and if the teacher counts them in and then just plays in time any student can then figure out what beat things fall on, if they feel they need to...), and pretty much none of that "worked".
What did work was to feel the rhythm/s from countless hours of listening and practising palmas and foot tapping, and then to try to lay really simple compas patterns and falsetas over that. I was lucky that I started sitting on on dance classes pretty early on, and got solo compas CD's from dance teachers where I could listen to basic compas played on guitar over and over...
....and the best lessons I have ever had were from a teacher in Spain (who btw had lessons from PDL's dad as a kid and accompanied Camarón as a young pro) who didn't count anything, and taught melodically and rhythmically, so everything was heard melodically and related to the foot tap. He would say, "before the foot tap" or "after the foot tap" or "on the foot tap" and that was it....
That makes sense, well It will definitely be a long time before I play for dancers (I've been playing for a year now). Though, unless my daughter decides to take up flamenco dance in 10 years, I can't imagine why I would or where an opportunity like that would present itself. Who knows what the future holds though, it would be interesting as I get older and need a sense of purpose. I guess im not as motivated to have perfect timing/counting as I prioritize learning more complex falsetta's, I know that sounds backwards though lol. Though as you pointed out, rhythm is far more important than timing/counting. Rhythm is more intuitive than some form of mathematical counting, thats likely why so it's hard to teach and explain. Though yes, I do struggle with the foot tapping while playing. Lol I dont suppose it counts if I hear the foot tapping in my head.
A lot of content in this thread, and honestly it's mostly outside of my simple comprehension. I admire most of the players on Foro Flamenco, but I can say a lot of the in-depth discussion by pro's can lead to confusion as a beginner.
I think if I started all over, I would have simply been smarter from day one and used a metronome all the time. That and learned how to count out loud while playing "one, and two, and three ...". I'm saying this, because I didn't do that and I really have to sit down and relearn a lot of things I thought I can play correctly but don't.
Basically if you can't do the most basic simple stuff, then the complex rhythm stuff will never ever sound right.
A lot of content in this thread, and honestly it's mostly outside of my simple comprehension. I admire most of the players on Foro Flamenco, but I can say a lot of the in-depth discussion by pro's can lead to confusion as a beginner.
I think if I started all over, I would have simply been smarter from day one and used a metronome all the time. That and learned how to count out loud while playing "one, and two, and three ...". I'm saying this, because I didn't do that and I really have to sit down and relearn a lot of things I thought I can play correctly but don't.
Basically if you can't do the most basic simple stuff, then the complex rhythm stuff will never ever sound right.
Jeff
I was told you should not use a metronome all the time, it’s breeds mechanical playing. Though whether not this is true, I don’t know. I use a metronome but not all the time. Some of the comments here really suggest against constant use of a metronome, that internal rhythm and even foot tapping is superior. So I gather that would suggest the metronome is just a learning tool. Typically I try to produce what the instructor/video is doing, practice that until I get it to where I think it should be. Afterwards and when the fingering doesn’t require my full attention (maybe a week or two after starting a few new falsettas) then I like to incorporate timing and cleanup the rythym and what not. It’s completely overwhelming to focus on everything at once, at least for me. Or just stick to Granadinas and just play what I want, how I want haha. Bulerias is just hard to feel the rhythm but I guess that’s why it has to be played slow before fast.
I don't buy that you become mechanical, and even if you do, it's way better than not playing in time ... I figured out that my not using a metronome over the years, I change my foot tapping according to what parts I can pay more easily than others, then I play against a compas track and can't sync up. So I've started using a metronome regularly.
If you are an at home guitarist (like me), and don't have your wife trained to do Palmas for you, it's probably going to work out better to use a metronome. Seriously if you aren't surrounded by Flamenco people and you're trying to learn falsetas, you either have to use a metronome or a recording to work against. The benefit to a metronome for learning is you can adjust the speed.
I suppose you could use the sunrise and sunset, but it's kind of hard to fill the space between beats accurately ... Also overcast days are tough
Some of the comments here really suggest against constant use of a metronome, that internal rhythm and even foot tapping is superior.
Absolutely nobody in this thread said such a thing. Metronome is essential in order to keep the ball bouncing. Metronome is the flat ground. Unless you want to learn to dribble on the stairs, always use a metronome. I said avoid the flamenco pattern specific metronomes, because they don’t teach you to focus on groove that a basic click teaches you to control. Flamenco metronomes are useful if you are already advanced and composing or trying out ideas, but not for learning how to control time.
Some of the comments here really suggest against constant use of a metronome, that internal rhythm and even foot tapping is superior.
Absolutely nobody in this thread said such a thing. Metronome is essential in order to keep the ball bouncing. Metronome is the flat ground. Unless you want to learn to dribble on the stairs, always use a metronome. I said avoid the flamenco pattern specific metronomes, because they don’t teach you to focus on groove that a basic click teaches you to control. Flamenco metronomes are useful if you are already advanced and composing or trying out ideas, but not for learning how to control time.
Ah that makes sense, thanks for clearing that up as I must have misunderstood a bit. So you are saying you have to use a metronome all the time then?, is there a danger to doing so? The only reason I ask is because I was told by others at the guitar academy (they have both flamenco and classical teachers) that I shouldn't use a metronome all the time. Im just doing their online program but have frequent one on one sessions and performance submittals and they mention the metronome shouldn't be used all the time. Granted you are strictly flamenco, your performance speaks for itself and you are likely one of the best players on this forum, so I would sooner follow your advice. Perhaps the only reason the academy says this is because they have more focus one classical guitar despite having two separate programs and teachers? I know going way back to my classical days we didn't use a metronome all that much, though classical is a whole different ball game.
Oh on a side note, what about compass/palma tracks compared to a metronome? And what is your opinion on foot tapping as a bulerias beginner? Is this something I should stress about right now?
I can actually tap my foot to what I feel, though this seems to throw me off coordination, sort of like patting the head and rubbing the stomach at the same time.
Well, that's your problem, right there. You need to START with the foot tap as your foundation, your base, and build whatever else you play with the guitar on top of that.
FWIW when I started out with flamenco I tried to learn to read music (because, erroneously, I believed I would need to, but what flamenco guitarists write out and publish scores? what flamenco singers [or dancers] give guitarists scores to accompany?), I learned all the counting, and tried to make everything fit to that (my current pet hate is teachers who count and play at the same time, which means I then can't hear what they are playing.... anyone can learn basic counting and if the teacher counts them in and then just plays in time any student can then figure out what beat things fall on, if they feel they need to...), and pretty much none of that "worked".
What did work was to feel the rhythm/s from countless hours of listening and practising palmas and foot tapping, and then to try to lay really simple compas patterns and falsetas over that. I was lucky that I started sitting on on dance classes pretty early on, and got solo compas CD's from dance teachers where I could listen to basic compas played on guitar over and over...
....and the best lessons I have ever had were from a teacher in Spain (who btw had lessons from PDL's dad as a kid and accompanied Camarón as a young pro) who didn't count anything, and taught melodically and rhythmically, so everything was heard melodically and related to the foot tap. He would say, "before the foot tap" or "after the foot tap" or "on the foot tap" and that was it....
So for Bulerias, what would be the best tapping pattern? Just basically every beat?
Though straight forward, I have the clapping and tapping down but trying to apply to while also playing the guitar is extremely Difficult. This is the hardest thing I have ever tried to do on the guitar so far. Is foot tapping really necessary? I somehow get the impression this is going to take a very long time to incorporate, or maybe I just don’t have this kind of coordination.
So for Bulerias, what would be the best tapping pattern? Just basically every beat?
No. That would be far too frantic. It wouldn’t express groove (unless you have a really clever foot that can tap harder on some beats than others or maybe distinguish heel and toe, but then you’d be a dancer).
Which beats depends on what you’re playing. Some chunks of bulería material have a strong 3/4 feel, so tap every other beat (6 a 8 a 10 a ) where a=silent, non-tapped beat. Other chunks have a strong 6/8 feel, so tap every third beat (12 a a 3 a a ).
As for the metronome: the choice of tool depends on the job you’re trying to do. The metronome has many uses. You might use it to develop your internal clock (so then you’d want to do the exercises in that bass player video where he keeps halving the beat frequency). You might use it to correct the timekeeping and iron out unconscious tactical rubato in a piece you’re learning. You might use it to get more value out of exercise drills (Antonio Rey said at this class I went to that you should always do your daily drill to a metronome). Or, you might use it to take Grisha’s great advice for preparing for a concert: play your material super slowly, so slowly that you’re almost losing the rhythmic feel. That way, you are forced to play consciously and deliberately instead of bouncing through on muscle-memory. In that use, the metronome is like lead boots to prevent you from speeding up. There isn’t just one activity called ‘playing to a metronome’.
But then if you’re trying to attend to the mechanism of your left hand or playing with your eyes closed so you can really listen to the quality of the notes, the last thing you need is the metronome smashing away. So then you’d turn it off.
So for Bulerias, what would be the best tapping pattern? Just basically every beat?
No. That would be far too frantic. It wouldn’t express groove (unless you have a really clever foot that can tap harder on some beats than others or maybe distinguish heel and toe, but then you’d be a dancer).
Which beats depends on what you’re playing. Some chunks of bulería material have a strong 3/4 feel, so tap every other beat (6 a 8 a 10 a ) where a=silent, non-tapped beat. Other chunks have a strong 6/8 feel, so tap every third beat (12 a a 3 a a ).
As for the metronome: the choice of tool depends on the job you’re trying to do. The metronome has many uses. You might use it to develop your internal clock (so then you’d want to do the exercises in that bass player video where he keeps halving the beat frequency). You might use it to correct the timekeeping and iron out unconscious tactical rubato in a piece you’re learning. You might use it to get more value out of exercise drills (Antonio Rey said at this class I went to that you should always do your daily drill to a metronome). Or, you might use it to take Grisha’s great advice for preparing for a concert: play your material super slowly, so slowly that you’re almost losing the rhythmic feel. That way, you are forced to play consciously and deliberately instead of bouncing through on muscle-memory. In that use, the metronome is like lead boots to prevent you from speeding up. There isn’t just one activity called ‘playing to a metronome’.
But then if you’re trying to attend to the mechanism of your left hand or playing with your eyes closed so you can really listen to the quality of the notes, the last thing you need is the metronome smashing away. So then you’d turn it off.
I really like this response. What is your take on this video by Kai though? https://learn.flamencoexplained.com/videos/buleria-foot-tapping Im really struggling with the rest on beat 9 and then 10 & 11 foot tap again. Its straight forward enough with clapping but the im seriously struggling to play the guitar while tapping. Granted Im still working through the steps and it's a work in progress.
He’s tapping the mirror image of (12 a a 3 a a ) i.e. he’s tapping (a 1 2 a 4 5)
That’s the same rhythm but it has a different groove because (in the first half of the 12- beat compás) the accents are empty. You have to feel those silent beats as kinda weighty silences. He’s playing rest-tap-tap-rest-tap-tap but he’s feeling BOOM-tap-tap-BOOM-tap-tap. This is 6/8.
In the second half of the 12-beat compás, this becomes a polyrhythm because he’s playing 6/8 with his foot but the rhythm in the music is 3/4. That’s why you’re having a hard time with it. The feel is um-tap-tap-um-TAP-tap even though the taps are all equally loud when played (because we’re not dancers and don’t vary our tapping). So again, there’s a felt rhythm that isn’t all audible.
It may help to work with this, playing 3 with your foot and 2 with your hand or hands https://youtu.be/8ePgZPuhCAo
He’s tapping the mirror image of (12 a a 3 a a ) i.e. he’s tapping (a 1 2 a 4 5)
That’s the same rhythm but it has a different groove because (in the first half of the 12- beat compás) the accents are empty. You have to feel those silent beats as kinda weighty silences. He’s playing rest-tap-tap-rest-tap-tap but he’s feeling BOOM-tap-tap-BOOM-tap-tap. This is 6/8.
In the second half of the 12-beat compás, this becomes a polyrhythm because he’s playing 6/8 with his foot but the rhythm in the music is 3/4. That’s why you’re having a hard time with it. The feel is um-tap-tap-um-TAP-tap even though the taps are all equally loud when played (because we’re not dancers and don’t vary our tapping). So again, there’s a felt rhythm that isn’t all audible.
It may help to work with this, playing 3 with your foot and 2 with your hand or hands https://youtu.be/8ePgZPuhCAo
I can check out the video later, though im not struggling with the clapping in general. Im struggling when implementing it to the playing. There is just simply too much going on to play the guitar and tap with the polyrythym. The falsettas I've learnt are basically 3/4 so far, so you are saying its best to just tap once with my foot on 12 a a 3 a a 6 a 8 a 10 a (the compass) instead?
Is foot tapping really necessary? I somehow get the impression this is going to take a very long time to incorporate, or maybe I just don’t have this kind of coordination.
I don't think foot tapping is necessary. I don't tap my foot. I rely on my inner pulse. In order to improve your inner pulse you need to work with metronome. But don't get used to metronome clicks on every beat. You'll be dependent on it. Step by step reduce the number of metronome clicks until you can play without metronome.
Is foot tapping really necessary? I somehow get the impression this is going to take a very long time to incorporate, or maybe I just don’t have this kind of coordination.
I don't think foot tapping is necessary. I don't tap my foot. I rely on my inner pulse. In order to improve your inner pulse you need to work with metronome. But don't get used to metronome clicks on every beat. You'll be dependent on it. Step by step reduce the number of metronome clicks until you can play without metronome.
Thats a really good point actually, though I still think there is something to foot tapping and it's worth exploring. I see all the pro's doing it when they play for dancers. Granted I dont plan to play for dancers, who knows what the future holds. Great point about the metronome though, i took the metronome down from 180 every click to 80bpm as per Ricardo aswell.
So for Bulerias, what would be the best tapping pattern? Just basically every beat?
usually every other beat, 12, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10. You will see PDL do this in the later sections of longer falsetas, the remates etc. and MANY other players use it all the time (eg. Tomatito), and that's the one the teacher I referred to used.
Every flamenco guitar teacher I have ever had lessons from has told me to use a metronome and learn to foot tap. beware of beginners who tell you otherwise!
Now reading further down the thread, the tap Kai is doing is an alternate pattern. 12, 45, 7,8, 10,11. That's what PDL (and many other players) used for compas and beginning sections of falsetas.
And what both patterns have in common is that they work for "medio compas" or "odd sixes", whatever you want to call the six pattern in bulerias, which AFAIK is the real base of bulerias. Many falsetas do not work out in straight 12's, and it's really fundamental in accompanying too. (and tapping in 3's i.e. 12, 3, 6, 9 works too).
the 12 pattern of 12, 3, 6, 8, 10 is something that lays over the base, and many recommend AVOIDING tapping 12, 3, 6, 8, 10 because not only it doesn't work all the time and can really trip you up when you have a falseta or whatever with medio compas, but also there is a greater tendency to speed up if you use that pattern.
I think the second or third falseta in the Tomatito encuentro vid has odd number of sixes. Watch here from 7:30 (and note the FOOT TAPPING!):
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