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Which video?
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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 RE: Which video? (in reply to Jon Boyes)
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Simon is right; this video is awesome. I picked one up on Sevilla for $12, but I have to get it converted to American format, which will cost way more than that! On the other hand, being a guitarist, you should just get one of the Encuentro tapes. I have only seen Tomatito's and it is awesome. For me, although I haven't heard anything about it, I want to get Pepe Habicheula because he has a wonderful style. Tom Nunez (lafalseta.com), who posts here once in a blue moon, and from whom I bought my guitar, sells them. He's a good guy.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Oct. 14 2003 18:52:32
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Phil
Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Rota, Spain
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RE: Which video? (in reply to Jon Boyes)
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Let me tell you what goes on here in Spain. At the local peña they video tape the performances and then broadcast them on the local TV channel. Ondajerez does the same thing and broadcasts the performances over the internet. I'll bet you a dollar to a doughnut that the artists never sign any kind of release to have their performances broadcast. If Melchor records something off of the TV and GIVES it away to other people who have no way of seeing the original broadcast and, as a result, these people go out and buy that artist's CDs, then he is actually doing that artist a favor and giving him free publicity. I don't think any laws are being broken or that the artists are in anyway being cheated out of something that is rightfully theirs (which is the whole point of copyright laws). If he was selling them, then that would be a whole other issue. Selling or giving away copies of an Encuentro Video, for example, is to me a clear violation of copyright. Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. 
While we're on the issue of copyrights, there's not a Flamenco guitarist alive who doesn't play other people's material in some form or another. It's a long standing tradition and I'll bet nobody is getting any royalties or would even think of trying to get royalties because somebody else is playing one of their falsetas. All you have to do is change a couple of notes and, violá, it's now your falseta. Check out Alain Faucher's 'Metamorphasis of a Falseta' on his website site for an interesting look at this.
I think as long as we don't post complete mp3's of CDs that are for sale or post copyrighted transcritptions (and I really don't see how anyone can legally copyright a transcription of someone else's music anyway), I think we'll be safe. We'll at least be respecting the spirit of the law if not the letter of the law.
Phil
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Oct. 16 2003 0:11:12
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Jon Boyes
Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
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RE: Which video? (in reply to Phil)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Phil
If Melchor records something off of the TV and GIVES it away to other people who have no way of seeing the original broadcast and, as a result, these people go out and buy that artist's CDs, then he is actually doing that artist a favor and giving him free publicity. I don't think any laws are being broken or that the artists are in anyway being cheated out of something that is rightfully theirs (which is the whole point of copyright laws)
Thats incorrect, laws *are* being broken Phil (at least as far as british copyright law is concerned, I can't speak for Spain although we -the EU - are supposed to be converging on these things. Some copyright law is international anyway.)
Let me start by saying I do not have an axe to grind here, I do not have a problem with the idea of swapping bootlegs, heck I doubt whether there's any of us here that don't have some cassettes at home of CDs we taped, I know I do. I'm just trying to correct the legal stuff about copyright (the Internet breeds myths about this).
What you're doing Phil is confusing the moral issue of the artist being cheated with the legal issue of copyright. I agree with you that there is a benefit to the artist in exposing their work to a wider audience which may result in increased sales, but copyright law still stands.
Copyright is automatic - whether you assert it as an artist is up to you. I agree that in some cases (your TV/pena example) it is in the artists interest to *not* try and claim royalties as the exposure is probably worth more to them.
quote:
While we're on the issue of copyrights, there's not a Flamenco guitarist alive who doesn't play other people's material in some form or another. It's a long standing tradition and I'll bet nobody is getting any royalties or would even think of trying to get royalties because somebody else is playing one of their falsetas. All you have to do is change a couple of notes and, violá, it's now your falseta. Check out Alain Faucher's 'Metamorphasis of a Falseta' on his website site for an interesting look at this.
Inteeresting point, but although I am not a lawyer, I would argue it doesn't apply.
Heres why: for copyright to be infringed, a *substantial* part of the original work has to be copied. A falsetta by itself is rarely the orginal work - the whole toque is.
Lets say I record a toque thats has 12 falsettas in it, all written by other players, all played not-for-note. Any one particular falsettta would not represent a major part of the original artist's work, because he'd a have a load of other falsettas and ras in there too.
However, if I copied the first 3 minutes of a four minute bulerias recorded by Paco De Lucia (ho, ho!) and changed the last minute, I would be infringing copyright as I would be copying a *substantial* part of the original work.
This is why copyright doesn't apply to simply nicking falsettas. It *would* apply if the flamenco artists recorded individual falsettas as works in themselves, as opposed to complete toques.
The issue is complicated further by folkloric tradition, where you have 'traditional' melodies handed down through generations, but the above is the basic law.
quote:
I think as long as we don't post complete mp3's of CDs that are for sale or post copyrighted transcritptions (and I really don't see how anyone can legally copyright a transcription of someone else's music anyway),
Well I'm afraid they can (sorry Phil!). If I publish a transcription of a flamenco toque, I would need permision from the artist *and* the publisher of the recorded music (usually the record company). Assuming I get it, and I publish, *I* own the copyright to *that* transcription as a work in itself. Look in any guitar magazine at a transcription and you will usually see three copyrights: the artist, the publisher *and* the guitar mag's transcriber.
If someone made copies of my transcription, they would need my permission to do so (as well as the other parties). Also, if someone then recorded that toque using my transcription, they would need permission from me as well as the original artist and the orginal publisher, although it would be tough for me to prove that they used my transcription for the recording. (The onus is on the artist to prove their copyright, should it come to a legal claim for royalties).
Jon
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Oct. 16 2003 9:23:24
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