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Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Vicente Amigo - in case this was... (in reply to devilhand)
The vicente technique at 7:10 is called Abanico de Marote. P-AM-P. If you meant the left hand, what can I say?
The second guitarist Rafael Andujar is fabulous. I forgot I have his album that starts with an excellent Rondeña with Bandurrias, highly recommend. Starts at 2:23
Posts: 137
Joined: Sep. 4 2010
From: New York area
RE: Vicente Amigo - in case this was... (in reply to tk)
Yeah first I saw that one it was posted in Guitarristas flamenco group on fb. Great vid, before Vicente became an idol. You can see him a bit nervous on that vid.
RE: Vicente Amigo - in case this was... (in reply to 12850bd)
quote:
I just realized the last guitarist is none other than Jose luis Monton
The comment section says this guy in this video is Jose Luis Monton. Looks like he made this video when he was younger.
Talking about abanico, the guy in the video above at 1:15-1:25 uses M finger instead of AM. I wonder how common it is and most importantly how it differs soundwise from P-A-I and P-AM-P abanico. I would say it sounds somewhere between.
Mr. Marlow, could you comment on this P-M-P abanico in relation to your post in this thread?
Marote is certainly an over used and abused technique by flamenco students, particularly outside of spain. I don't shy away from teaching it, however I make it clear to students that there are reasons to use certain techniques vs others having to do with the already mentioned chord voicings, and also tempo and dynamics. Simply put both techniques p-a-i and marote have versatility but taste will dictate what are the more appropriate applications for one or the other. I also feel that a player can get away with avoiding doing Marote technique ever, but forever avoiding the p-a-i might leave something to be desired about the players personal style. Hence my first sentence above.
Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Vicente Amigo - in case this was... (in reply to devilhand)
Pmp is perhaps not as strong or loud if your goal is volume. M can be substituted by a, i and even pinky. I have seen pinky and ring used together in place of p-a-I normal abanico as well.
The louder version I showed in class in Sanlucar uses ima as a compact unit, so p-ami-p as triplets. Everybody laughed when I did that. It was ridiculous loud in otherwords, it is legitimately used in dance honestly but it was years ago this happened and I realized the dynamic range and taste is important, hence my quoted comment. A big issue is the sound system. I have learned over the years to play with taste whatever is appropriate and if the sound system is not adequate, it is the dancers problem not mine.
Posts: 137
Joined: Sep. 4 2010
From: New York area
RE: Vicente Amigo - in case this was... (in reply to Ricardo)
From what I know not only Vicente loves p ma p but he also starts it not with p upstroke but with ma downstroke, but finishing still on upstroke with p.. I think he squeezes those starting ma p strokes and is his rasgeo sounds brighter and more condensed in a sense.
RE: Vicente Amigo - in case this was... (in reply to tk)
My guitar teacher taught me breaks/endings with the p-am-p, but starting with am and ending on a p upstroke. He use it for Tangos and Bulerias. I find it very usefull, but my rasgueo still sucks. God it's long to developp a clean and even abanico. But that's another story.
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