Masters Classes

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Masters Classes

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Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

Masters Classes

A term in music that is perhaps not well defined is "Master". As it
relates specifically to flamenco guitar is even more obscure.

The definition that seems to apply to "Master" in this instance is "an
artist, performer, or player of consummate skill". From here on things
become interpretive. I see many self proclaimed "Master's" classes being
taught by self-proclaimed, "Master's".

Self-promotion is a good approach for those that do not have a promoter,
agent or marketing department. The "Master" may be a good player but not a
good teacher. The Master may not be a good player or know little about flamenco.

I have met several people whom I consider as Flamenco Masters. My list
consists of names like Sabicas, Carlos Montoya, Juan Serrano and Mariano
Cordoba. I can add some of todays guitarists but I hope you get my idea.

Today, I find people who are calling themselves "Masters", give
classes, and do not inspire me a great deal. I have taken classes from
some of these individuals and realize they have talent but it does not seem
to have much depth. I always try to learn something new from everyone I meet in flamenco. It is not uncommon for me to teach something new to others.

One of the complaints I have of many of these new "Masters", is in many
cases they may know little about flamenco. They can play fast and loud
which is important to some people. Their playing lacks feeling but does
incorporate technically difficult accomplishments.

Many have no clue how to accompany a dancer or singer. One fellow from Spain kept saying, "Do this"! He could not define the names of the chords he was using. These were not commonly used flamenco chords but will be found in American Jazz.

I have seen a number of advertisements at music stores, the Internet, and a
variety of sources advertising "Flamenco Master's Course". You may learn
something and you may even enjoy yourself at such an event.

Today flamenco guitar has taken on many forms and people’s taste differs. It is good to have a choice but it is nice to know what you are paying for be it a “Master’s Class” or paying to watch some flamenco group perform. Your expectations and reality may not meet.

_____________________________

Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 17 2003 23:40:36

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Masters Classes (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

Tom,
if these self-proclaimed masters could teach me how to play loud and fast and technically difficult things, that would be enough. I could learn the other stuff from someone else! But someone who is merely able to play loud and fast and can't teach others how to do that is, well, fairly useless I think.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2003 1:48:00

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Masters Classes (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Michael;

I think there is value to calling yourself a Master. Self-promotion, inflated ego, create your own world and the list goes on. It is a bit like creating your own Web Site to promote your own ideas. You can twist whatever you like and make your own world on the Internet.

I know some software developers who only believe what they find on the Internet when they look for news. To substantiate your position you must give these individuals a URL. If your knowledge is from any other source it is invalid. If there is no web page, which presents your position, your thoughts are invalid.

There are many types of people in the world. Some are socialized (whatever that entails) and some are “different”.

_____________________________

Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2003 15:51:38

Paul Bruhns

Posts: 77
Joined: Jul. 14 2003

RE: Masters Classes (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

Let's face it, no one here is a master of Flamenco, or even guitar. We are at best, afficianados or students of the art who play guitar. I think its great that we can share our passion for the music, and our experiences, and I would even go as far as to say that there are several good players who communicate here. I enjoy it tremendously.

But, the word master is of no consequence. There are subjective terms in any endeavor, and very little in the way of quantitative standards necessary to label anyone a master of anything!

Still, the term Master... falls in a line of succession: Beginner; Intermediate; Advanced; and Master... or, is it Apprentice; Jouneyman, and Master?

I could derive my own definition of what these things mean, but they would be just that... MY definitions, and I think that my opinion would be worth about as much as a broken D string...which I have far too many of :-)

Let's just keep sharing, and leave the philosophy to "The Masters"

Best Regards,
Paul

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 19 2003 15:41:09

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 23 2003 19:59:13

Paul Bruhns

Posts: 77
Joined: Jul. 14 2003

RE: Masters Classes (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

Yeah Andy,

That's it exactly. I think the person would be Apprentice-Journeyman-Master (as in the trades) and the instruction would be Beginner-Intermediate-Advanced-Master. But, it all conotes that somewhere there is a master level of accomplishment.

Still, in thinking about it, I don't think one needs to be a virtuoso to be a master of flamenco guitar. I think flamenco guitar is meant to be a percussive/ rhythmic instrument, albeit somewhat musical to transfer the key and musical mood... (does the word inferrence work here?). So, I would call someone a master of flamenco guitar who had that certain ability to accomodate the cante and baile in a way that raised the performance to "art" and could follow, improvise, and communicate ideas that inspired his /her fellow performers at the time.

That's why flashy solo guitar playing does not generally stir my flamenco blood. For example, when I hear PdL play, my favorite thing to listen for is the palmas and occassional footwork of a dancer, and how they all interact... to me that's good flamenco.

But, that's just my thoughts... I'm in no way an expert.

Regards,
Paul

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2003 19:32:19

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Masters Classes (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

That's an interesting thought, Paul... although I tend to enjoy more the antics of the virtuoso musicians. I think you're right. There seems to me to be a divide between the skills of the great flamenco accompaniast and the great soloist. For example, I was listening to Manolo Sanlucar this morning... I don't know much about his accompaniment, but his technical accomplishmet is wonderful. He has a whole different take on flamenco in his solo playing. He makes a real statement. I love it!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2003 6:31:22

Billyboy

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003

RE: Masters Classes (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

I raised an eybrow when you mentioned Jaun Serrano as a true master, is he not the one who does buleria falsetas that never end, just when you think, next compas will be his last, like a 'Duracell' battery he keeps on going.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2003 20:05:16

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Masters Classes (in reply to Billyboy)

Juan has played for many of the best singers and dancers, which few have done that place the title of “Master” after their names! I know some of these guys and they have never been east of the Mississippi!

_____________________________

Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2003 21:33:35