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Alegrias for dancers - help!   You are logged in as Guest
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Greg

 

Posts: 6
Joined: Jan. 20 2006
 

Alegrias for dancers - help! 

Hi,

Can anyone point me to some good instructional stuff for Alegrias dance accompaniment? I have played flamenco now for 5 years, and have just started playing at dance classes. Is the Palo a Palo series something good to buy?

All responses much appreciated!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 2 2006 23:02:34

Tomás Jiménez

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 4 2006 23:14:39

Tomás Jiménez

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 4 2006 23:17:03
 
La Contratiempo

 

Posts: 33
Joined: Feb. 12 2006
From: Denmark

RE: Alegrias for dancers - help! (in reply to Greg

Hi Greg.
Im trying to get in contact with a guitarist I worked with earlier. He has some good DVDs that emphasis on the accompaniment. He doesn't answer back right now. But when he does, I'll be back with his recommandations.
Ellen

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El Corazón es el que manda
cuando la duda está en la mente.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 5 2006 11:37:03
 
La Contratiempo

 

Posts: 33
Joined: Feb. 12 2006
From: Denmark

RE: Alegrias for dancers - help! (in reply to Greg

hi again. the guitarist I know, Nickolaj, says that he has been quite happy with the DVDs like "bulerias paso a paso 1" by Jose Manuel Montoya, where there is sometimes also a dancer. But it is not, as I thought a DVD on dance-accompaniment.
I hope you find some things. Else dance-DVDs like the ones they sell on Flamenco-world.com might also help you.
Saludos, Ellen

_____________________________

El Corazón es el que manda
cuando la duda está en la mente.

http://www.que-pasa.dk
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 9 2006 20:22:43
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Alegrias for dancers - help! (in reply to Greg

Play a libre entrada go in the compas do a Llamada.. et voila there is the entrada. Or just play a falseta in the speed of the dance after that llamada. You can ue what you want when here is no danc t the beginning. I prefer to play a falseta in compas which sounds very alegria.

Ups I misunderstood.. yu dont seach an entrada? Instructionla stuff.
Ok.
Just ask more precise. I will try to help, than. Its too much writing at the moment to explain a whole alegrias...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 9 2006 21:30:22
 
Francisco

Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA

RE: Alegrias for dancers - help! (in reply to Greg

quote:

Just ask more precise. I will try to help, than. Its too much writing at the moment to explain a whole alegrias...

I think (I could be wrong) this was the original request, for a resource that explained a 'whole' alegrias.

I've only been playing flamenco for less than a year, so I have been focusing on the 4/4:2/4 etc family (mostly Rumba and Tango). I've started the 12 count with Alegrias just recently. I know some very basic alegrias compas, and 1 or 2 falsetas, but don't really know how they all fit together.

It would be great to a have an all inclusive resource (esp. DVD) that covered how all the different parts of the palo fit together.

I have considered Oscar Herrero's DVD on accompaniment (4th in the series?), but was not really all that impressed with the Vol.s 1, 2 or 3. Any input here would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: Sorry, that was Volume 7 of Oscar Herrero's DVD series
http://www.flamencon.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FC&Product_Code=880180&Category_Code=8R
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 10 2006 1:33:24
 
Francisco

Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA

RE: Alegrias for dancers - help! (in reply to Greg

Here's a little nugget I came across over at flamenco-teacher. Behzad posted it, and does an awesome job. He states (as does Thomas) that this is not the only format, and the format can actually vary alot. Anyway, atleast it's a start.

quote:

Behzad
This is something interesting that I like to put my 2 cents in. I will explain to you the overall form of a danced Alegrias. But, I also encourage others to do so as well. The reason why I say this is because there is a general structure, but everyone (as in dancers) have something different. And I think that what I say is certainly not the "only" way, its just my personal perception, and I believe everyone else's is different too, and I find that very interesting. Anyways, here is how I think of it:

GENERAL FORM:
-Entrada
-Letra
-Silencio
-Escobilla
-Buleria de Cadiz

Now to get a bit more in depth:

1. Entrada (play some kind of opening falseta and "close it" with a musical llamada)
2. Llamada ("Call" - they can be usually one or two compas long)
3. Salida (singer sings "Tiriti tran tran tran")
4. Cierre(?) (I personally -in a good way- am a bit confused about cierre and llamada, but that's just the lingo I guess. For the rest of this, I will just call them llamadas until someone clarifies)
5. Letra (verse)
6. Coletilla/Estrebillo (I don't know which is the correct term, but it immediately follows the letra, and is technically a part of it. Its usually -but not always- the same lyrics from one letra to another)
7. Some possible footwork.
8. Optional repeat of #4-7, but with a different letra.
9. Build up
10. Llamada (or is it a displante? I get different opinions from everyone. Anyone, please clarify).
11. Silencio (There is a set number of compas in this. There is 6 compas if you are thinking in 12, or 12 if you are thinking in 6. Its got the mood of the solea. Its in the parallel minor of the key of the piece. So if you are playing in E major, then the silencio is usually in E minor. At the end of the piece it slowly modulates back to the major. A good starting one is the one on page 66 of Gerhard Graf-Martinez' book vol.1).
----------------#12 through 13 is optional, otherwise the dancer can go right into the escobilla from here.--------------------
12. Castellana (This is optional. It starts off with the dancer going “&2-3-4-5-6-7&a-8&a-9&a-10”, usually in that rhythmic scheme; the 7 through 10 usually in triplets, but they don’t have to be. Then the Castella estrebillo is sung usually twice. Harmonically, its usually similar to the Salida except that its with words).
13. Closing llamada.
14. Escobilla (The escobilla starts on beat 1!!! Whether you think of the rest of the piece as starting on beat 12 or 1, then escobilla starts on 1. This is important to know for the next part which will be explained next.
15. Build up after getting out of the escobilla (the way you “get out” of the escobilla is watch out for the dancer to switch his/her footwork to beat 12. That is when you stop playing the escobilla music and go into regular compas (more of a bulerias feel).
----------#16-17 is optional, otherwise you go to #18-------------
16. Llamada to close.
17. Optional solo de pie (it’s a palo seco, so just strumming the strings with no chords. Its usually got the feel of a solea por buleria, but sometimes its done in 3’s like a verdiales.
18. Llamada
19. Buleria de Cadiz (it’s a form of bulerias that is in major. The phrase is usually 4 compas long, but is done twice in a row).
--------------#20 is optional, otherwise go to #21-------------------
20. Ida (The dancer goes to one of the front corners of the stage, and dances the ida, usually the same thing as the salida – “tiriti tran”).
21. Build up.
22. Displante (or llamada, whatever you want to call it).

Like I said, this is just my interpretation. Its never done just this way. Its either more simple or more complicated. Sometimes in random parts someone might request something like “okay, do a falseta here”, whatever. And the above should just be one point of reference, otherwise you will come up with your own version.

What else is really important is that you have the music down. As in, you would need: basic compas, a falseta for the intro, salida chords letra with coletilla/estrebillo chords, silencio falseta, the escobilla music (aka “Caracoles falseta”), 1 compas llamada, 2 compas llamada, castellana chords (salida chords will do), Buleria de Cadiz chords.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2006 2:09:55

Tomás Jiménez

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2006 9:16:47
 
El Becko

 

Posts: 49
Joined: Nov. 23 2005
From: Paris

RE: Alegrias for dancers - help! (in reply to Francisco

Hi Samwise,

Thanks a million for sharing this !

What I can find on the web are falsetas, falsetas and falsetas again... but never this type of info. Or maybe I need to improve my google skills…

The only books I found explaining this kind of structure are the Claude Worms books, but you have to digest several tens of pages and challenging tabs before having a synthetic view like this. I think it makes more sense to start with a synthetic view and simple tab examples before going in a more detailed view with more difficult things to play.

I do not know why such a fundamental info is difficult to find. Even if you play solo guitar, you want to use a certain structure with an intro, a llamada etc with your falseta. Flashy picado falsetas are great but first one has to master the compas and an appropriate structure…

Cheers.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2006 10:07:08
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Alegrias for dancers - help! (in reply to Greg

Holy shoe! Do I have to learn it all to make accompainment?!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2006 10:11:22
 
El Becko

 

Posts: 49
Joined: Nov. 23 2005
From: Paris

RE: Alegrias for dancers - help! (in reply to XXX

Well, hopefully no...

That is a very detailed example, and I understand it is some kind "all you can find in an alegria". For sure you can use simpler structures, for instance for solo guitar, I believe one can do something like intro/rasgueado/llamada/falseta/remate (?).

I understand that a flamenco piece requires some kind of a structure... and it is the first time I find an example like this... but maybe I did not look for it strong enough...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2006 11:03:03
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14861
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Alegrias for dancers - help! (in reply to XXX

quote:

Holy shoe! Do I have to learn it all to make accompainment?!


Unfortunately, even if you had all that structure memorized and actually understood what it all looked like applied to a peticular dance, it still would not mean you would do as good for another dancer. You see in addition to all that "structure", you have the DETAILS, all the little rhythmic nuances, cortes (little stops), off the beat accentuations, and to top it off, some dancers want to do something deliberately different than the norm that YOU have to memorize...and all without "thinking" about the compas. So in short, yeah you must know it, it is just the base blue print, to do good there is SO much more to it.

Fortunately, if you CAN do this for about 3 different dancers, then you start to get the idea of what is important, what is not so important, what are the typical rhythmic phrases, etc. You start to make educated guesses until you gain the confidence to accompany ANYONE, even with little or no rehearsal. And for me after I understood the structure of Alegrias, I had no problem with something like Solea, Solea Por Bulerias, Tientos, Siguiriyas, Guajiras, etc, similar structure idea. Alegrias has the the MOST different sections, so in terms of structure it has the most stuff to memorize.

Ricardo

PS, BECKO, yeah there are simplier versions, but in Behzad's post he gives the simple structure first, then goes into detail. The post was in regards to Baile, not cante or guitar solos.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2006 16:52:16
 
Francisco

Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA

RE: Alegrias for dancers - help! (in reply to Greg

quote:

...after I understood the structure of Alegrias, I had no problem with something like Solea, Solea Por Bulerias, Tientos, Siguiriyas, Guajiras, etc, similar structure idea. Alegrias has the the MOST different sections, so in terms of structure it has the most stuff to memorize.

Thanks for that info, Ricardo. The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know. The compas are coming along nicely, but the theory is lagging behind. This, I believe, is partially due to a lack of understanding the overall structure. Behzad's post was the kind of help I needed to get things started. I've been spending alot of time at Buleria Chuck's website, I feel like ist is starting to pay off.


EDIT: i don't know how to spell lack
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2006 23:54:57
 
La Contratiempo

 

Posts: 33
Joined: Feb. 12 2006
From: Denmark

RE: Alegrias for dancers - help! (in reply to Francisco

Hi Samwise.
What a good description of the form of alegrías. And although no alegrías would be exactly like this, it is a good way of having an idea before you start accompanying.
quote:

Cierre(?) (I personally -in a good way- am a bit confused about cierre and llamada, but that's just the lingo I guess. For the rest of this, I will just call them llamadas until someone clarifies

no wonder. You ask different flamencos and they all have different answers. I tend to say that all these breaks are llamadas (calls) they call for attencion because something is going to happen or stop. When a llamada is stopping/closing they can be called cierres (closings) or remates (comes from rematar: to give the bull the last deathblow in the bull fight) - and the remates will often be used to close a letra (song verse) or a part of a letra.
I hope this makes it a little more clear - or maybe more confusing????
Ellen

_____________________________

El Corazón es el que manda
cuando la duda está en la mente.

http://www.que-pasa.dk
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 29 2006 16:14:05
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