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I'm amazed at the long conversation my most recent article at Expoflamenco triggered.
I would very much be interested to know what topics people would like to read about. There are so many options, I don't know what's most important....flamenco trends, history, biographies, show reviews, interviews, general musings...
Writing for Expoflamenco is a big responsibility, as well as privilege. Please make suggestions.
(This was the message I thought had disappeared...:-P )
I would be interested in the popularity, or otherwise, of flamenco in its home. It wasn't very easy to find flamenco when I lived there, aside from fiestas, tablaos and impromptus in Granada city. Village folk didn't seem to care for it very much.
It was an interesting topic, and a good article. I'm glad ViejoArmargo posted it here .
Dunno what to suggest. Like you said, there's just so much. One thing that caught my attention in that thread was when Ricardo said this:
quote:
I agree that cante has suffered but that is the fault of the BAILE forcing orthodoxy and squareness that phased out the variety of cante that once existed, one letra at a time
I don't know whether that's a topic that would be of interest to people. It's not something I had really thought about. I had some sense that baile had phased out certain things like medio compas, perhaps imposed a change in standard tempo for certain forms, made things more cuadrado, etc. but I hadn't thought about it having quite the influence on cante that Ricardo's post suggests. So, questions that come to mind for me would be things like: was there ever a time when it was possible for dancers to adapt to this variety of cante, or was it always a sort of zero-sum game, i.e. if we sing this, you can't dance; if you dance, we can't sing this?
The answer to that would have implications on what can be done today to reintroduce that variety in cante, at least in the commercial arena. Because if it is a zero-sum game, there's not much to be done, except perhaps incorporate more non-dance parts in baile-driven shows, during which a wider variety of cante could be explored. On the other hand, if it's not a zero-sum game, then there could be ways to teach baile different, such that it would be easier to adapt to a wider variety of cante.
Anyway, just thinking out loud. Not sure any of that made sense
It was the one in the thread "Is there hope for flamenco outside Andalucia"
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
Palmas? No thanks. Don't want to hear that noisy crap. Most people would think that way including me.
Another request is palmas. The role of palmas in flamenco in particular in flamenco guitar playing. The same goes for knuckles knocking on a table for example during cante accompaniment.
Palmas? No thanks. Don't want to hear that noisy crap. Most people would think that way including me. The role of palmas in flamenco in particular in flamenco guitar playing. The same goes for knuckles knocking on a table for example during cante accompaniment.
Are you serious?? Have you ever tried doing contra-tiempo? Have you ever sat in a room where skillfully executed palmas get the air moving from all directions and build excitement?
Am I missing something here?
But, if you’re serious, to be helpful, if you don’t ‘get’ palmas you have to start to re-evaluate your relationship with flamenco, IMO, because you are cutting out an enormous part of the cultural history of its development by ignoring this. This is how the children are initially taught, FFS.
To consider the question about the role of palmas in flamenco guitar playing, the first point is flamenco isn’t just about guitar. This discussion happens all the time on here. But, to be clear, palmas preceded guitars, flamenco can exist without guitars, sorry to say. There’s a lot of aficionados who aren’t that interested in simply solo guitar flamenco, too. It may be your love, but that doesn’t mean it’s what most people feel, contrary to your generalization.
To be fair, I’m not a fan of too much tacon in recorded music, I often skip over those pieces. But, yeah, you got to rethink this palmas stance, I think. Also, maybe don’t be so darned confrontational so much, I realize half the time it’s just in fun, but poking at someone who hasn’t been here in a long time is a bit much. Zata has more first hand knowledge about flamenco in her little finger than most of us will be able to acquire in a lifetime. Show some respect, please.
Your first request makes sense and is a good idea, then you go on with this stuff. Geeez.
You misunderstood my post. My last 2 sentences are now placed under that youtube video. I added one sentence to emphasize my request.
OK, thanks. That is a lot more clear now. It’s all good.
I guess part of my point is, while I only know Zata from reading old posts from before I was a member, it would be great if she started engaging in some of the discussions here, so I hope we don’t discourage her with our looniness.
Secondly, I think it is a good request. Sometimes it’s hard to appreciate how electric the air can get in a room when it all comes together and the palmas, cante, baile, and guitar all lock into sync, and start feeding off each other. It doesn’t really come across that well on recorded music or even in some concerts, where the level of perfection is so high that audience expectations can sometimes only be satisfied through pyrotechnical displays. It’s different, is all I can say.
Any rate, it’s just a misunderstanding and all is good. Olé.
OK, so here’s an example of what I mean. I hope the club that owns the Facebook page doesn’t object to my linking.
This is probably taken after hours, it’s not really a show, and I’m not posting this as something to be critiqued, this is just an example...it’s a little raw, but that’s kind of my point...
Check out the palmas, how they participate in the music, especially how they come in and support the guitarist during his break. That’s the “audience”. It may not be perfect, but it shows how a room can start to feel when everyone is part of it, there is no separation between audience and performer, it’s more of a whole synergistic experience for all. It’s the spontaneity that fuels the energy.
That remark of PdL’s about Lorca is intriguing. I wonder whether Lorca’s peculiar romantic intellectual view of cante jondo is all that closely related to the burlesque-with-stamping image of flamenco shows demonstrated in the newspaper cuttings. After all, his interest was in the letras, but as you say, singing isn’t the thing in shows tuned for tourists.
Anyway, there may be an article waiting to be written about the effect of Lorca’s patronage and influence on flamenco.
singing isn’t the thing in shows tuned for tourists.
So is palmas. But I think as long as the whole program isn't full of extreme palmas as shown in youtube video above, tourists will go there next time again. Otherwise it will remain a once in a lifetime experience.
My girlfriend used to dance Kathak in India, and from her (and others) experience there is a male hierarchy inherent in many dance practices where the (male) teacher/guru abuses his power over others. A lot of abuse (sexual and otherwise) goes unreported or rarely talked about. I don't know how this would relate to flamenco in general, but to comment on how the aspiring professional dancer copes with this situation, would be interesting and eye opening. Another subject, that parallels this is the sense of jealousy, cattiness, and mean spiritedness (mainly woman to woman) in the world of dance, that at times can destroy an aspiring artists desire to create and love the art form.
My girlfriend used to dance Kathak in India, and from her (and others) experience there is a male hierarchy inherent in many dance practices where the (male) teacher/guru abuses his power over others. A lot of abuse (sexual and otherwise) goes unreported or rarely talked about.
I don't think what you mentioned here is common in western world. India is a not a good example here judging from the fact that... You'll find it on the internet.
singing isn’t the thing in shows tuned for tourists.
So is palmas. But I think as long as the whole program isn't full of extreme palmas as shown in youtube video above, tourists will go there next time again. Otherwise it will remain a once in a lifetime experience.
I honestly thought you were joking before, but now I realize that you just didn’t take your meds.
That remark of PdL’s about Lorca is intriguing. I wonder whether Lorca’s peculiar romantic intellectual view of cante jondo is all that closely related to the burlesque-with-stamping image of flamenco shows demonstrated in the newspaper cuttings. After all, his interest was in the letras, but as you say, singing isn’t the thing in shows tuned for tourists.
Anyway, there may be an article waiting to be written about the effect of Lorca’s patronage and influence on flamenco.
I honestly thought you were joking before, but now I realize that you just didn’t take your meds.
I already gave my opinion about palmas. I was not joking before. How about you explain here the role of palmas in flamenco so that I can look at it from the different angle?
Lorca knew very little about flamenco. What little he knew he learned from De Falla, who also knew very little. The famous concourso de 1922 was just an example of the ricos slumming. That they banned professional cantaores and invited Segovia speaks volumes.
I honestly thought you were joking before, but now I realize that you just didn’t take your meds.
I already gave my opinion about palmas. I was not joking before. How about you explain here the role of palmas in flamenco so that I can look at it from the different angle?
It is the basis of compas. What you are saying is like “I love that rock band and several others in a similar style...but I can’t stand those annoying drums. How could anybody stand that noise for too long?”.
The guy never jokes and, based on some early comments to me and Piwin joking around, appears to be uncomfortable with humour in general. Perplexing character..
It is the basis of compas. What you are saying is like “I love that rock band and several others in a similar style...but I can’t stand those annoying drums. How could anybody stand that noise for too long?”.
Get it? It is beyond ridiculous.
Nothing against one or two palmeros clapping a simple rhythm. When there are more than that that's beyond ridiculious from a tocaors perspective. Your youtube video above is a good example. Makes no sense to play guitar there. As I wrote above tourists can enjoy it once. But I doubt they want to experience it once again.
Btw, I've never seen a band with a bunch of drummers. All I can say is too many cooks spoil the soup.
Nothing against one or two palmeros clapping a simple rhythm. When there are more than that that's beyond ridiculious from a tocaors perspective. Your youtube video above is a good example. Makes no sense to play guitar there. As I wrote above tourists can enjoy it once. But I doubt they want to experience it once again.
Btw, I've never seen a band with a bunch of drummers. All I can say is too many cooks spoil the soup.
Just watch the whole thing. If you don't get it, you don't get it.
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