Accompaniment on multiple guitars

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devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

Accompaniment on multiple guitars

What is the purpose of accompanying cante or baile on multiple guitars? Increasing the sound level? Making the accompaniment sound diverse and different?

What I've noticed so far is when it comes to accompanying cante/baile on more than 1 guitar, let's say 2, 3 or even 4 guitars, all accompanying guitarists seem to play in a exact same way, duplicating 100% what the other guitarists are doing. Technique, chord voicings, rhythm pattern... I mean everything. Is it a correct observation?

Please note that I'm not talking about rumba.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2020 13:36:22

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Accompaniment on multiple guitars (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

Is it a correct observation?

No. It’s not always like that. But if you have guitars playing different chords and rhythmic accent, it can get very busy....barking dogs distracting.

Here they play similar styles but often clash:

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 26 2020 14:32:51

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Accompaniment on multiple guitars (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

No. It’s not always like that. But if you have guitars playing different chords and rhythmic accent, it can get very busy....barking dogs distracting.

Sorry. I have to correct myself. No different rhythmic accent. What I meant was same chords and chord voicings.

quote:

Here they play similar styles but often clash:

I can't hear and see it in this video.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 1 2021 21:43:16

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Accompaniment on multiple guitars (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

I can't hear and see it in this video.

Cant see any clash? Like when one guy plays an A chord and the other plays a Bb? Ok, just get a teacher man.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 1 2021 22:27:58

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Accompaniment on multiple guitars (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

What I've noticed so far is when it comes to accompanying cante/baile on more than 1 guitar, let's say 2, 3 or even 4 guitars, all accompanying guitarists seem to play in a exact same way, duplicating 100% what the other guitarists are doing. Technique, chord voicings, rhythm pattern... I mean everything. Is it a correct observation?

Often they play different chord shapes with the cejilla on different frets, eg. 1 guitarist plays por medio with the capo on II and the other plays por arriba with the capo on VII. Maybe a 3rd guitarist plays por granaina al aire....

Or 1 guitarist plays in rondeña tuning with the capo on I and the other plays por medio with the cejilla on V....

Ab and Eb work with the capo one fret higher than por medio and por arriba respectively...

there are many possibilities, but it's not really important because to learn to accompany baile you just need to sit in on some classes and try to follow what the guitarist is doing with the capo on the same fret and in the same key

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 2 2021 18:07:01

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Accompaniment on multiple guitars (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

Ab and Eb work

Yep, G# and D# 😉

But if you follow above, he thinks the Morao brothers are playing the exact same thing together. So whatever he thinks “play the exact same way duplicating 100% what the other guitarist is playing” means might be in question to begin with.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2021 13:46:19

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Accompaniment on multiple guitars (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Yep, G# and D# 😉

Yep, those too

(I know G# and D# are more musically "correct" but also that many flamenco's use Ab and Eb instead.)

quote:

But if you follow above, he thinks the Morao brothers are playing the exact same thing together. So whatever he thinks “play the exact same way duplicating 100% what the other guitarist is playing” means might be in question to begin with.

that too - sounds and looks like the mic is closer to manuel but the camera is more on juan - interesting audio-visual effect!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2021 14:42:28

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Accompaniment on multiple guitars (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

I know G# and D# are more musically "correct" but also that many flamenco's use Ab and Eb instead.)

Well, they would say “La bemol or Mi bemol”...but when we use letter names they relate to the circle of 5ths specifically. I have not seen a laid out circle or theoretical framework that uses solfegio instead of letters. I am sure that there must exist a “translated” version of the circle, however, it would most likely be used in hopes to pull a person used to solfegio into the world of “ABC” music language before discussing tonal harmony. So in that sense I have no problems with folks calling “G#” “La bemol”....

But when we use the actual letter names to describe keys, Eb phrygian might be described using the Ab minor key sig, 7 flats, but D# only has 5 sharps, so the lower common denominator wins. However Ab phrygian is a theoretical non existent key, as are Db minor or Fb major...because they all require the existence of the Bbb in the key signature. So we can trash it altogether as a possible “key” in favor of “G# phrygian”.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 5 2021 15:39:38

joevidetto

Posts: 191
Joined: Jun. 15 2013

RE: Accompaniment on multiple guitars (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

the purpose of accompanying cante or baile on multiple guitars?

When watching live "juergas", I think you see so many playing similar things because for 2 guitars to complement each other well, there usually needs to be at least a little planning ahead, the guitar players need to have at least somewhat of an understanding of each others playing, and the caliber of musicianship needs to be VERY high. When done correctly, it adds energy as the 2 guitar plays syncopate and have dialog with each other, and allows guitar melodies during solos to be played in 3rds, etc. - question and answer type rhythms.

I was always amazed at how Tomatito and Paco play together for Cameron and the whole of the 2 guitars is truly greater than the sum of the parts - the sound is fuller, yet these virtuosos never step on each other.

But clearly 1 guitar is often more than enough to fill the role it plays in cante and baile - otherwise you would hear 2 guitars more often. Plus there is that issue of how many people need to get paid, when talking about paying gigs lol

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 24 2021 14:53:14