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REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to Kate)
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quote:
So come on stop knocking the purists. We should appreciate them. Hi Kate, I think the word "purists" polarizes things and leads to arguments IMO. But I see exactly where you are coming from here.. I (in spite of what people might think), don't sit listening to Niño Ricardo and Sabicas etc all day. I actually listen to heaps of stuff including Vincente, Nuñez etc.. But I do think that "Extranjero" flamenco, (on the Net anyway) is starting to gain control a bit (for those on the Net) and intelligent and gifted guitarists, some with a lot of music school education, who were once charmed by the sound...are starting to take hold of it and by the weight of their education, practise, Internet savvy, etc are guiding folk into their own "interpretations" of Flamenco, having being first inspired by seeing "Friday Night in San Francisco" with Paco and John McLaughlin and Al Dimiola... Also I remember at one time someone said something to you, like.."I don't know what the Flamencos you associate with think, where you are ... (Granada)...but all the Flamencos I know around here (Australia)..think differently..." ) IMO, that's how we get folk "composing" complete Flamenco solos after only a year or two of study, having never actually stepped foot in Spain or Andalucia, never been to a juerga or a peña in their lives... How can you do that? Beats me.. I know this post is going to be unpopular...but to me it's just about twisting a particular art form from being what it is to what you want it to be, to suit yourself. That's why in a previous post I mentioned about dropping compás. Keep it simple 4/4 so folk can concentrate more on technique... cheers Ron
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Mar. 3 2006 21:39:22
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Kate
Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía
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RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to XXX)
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I dont know why it is taken as criticism of music simply by saying "This is not flamenco" and I believe it is very important to be able to say that, such as the other night at the Jerez Festival I mentioned before or at an Ojos de Brujo concert or Ottmar Liebart. The boundaries of flamenco do change, Cameron was thought a modern upstart. Certainly the addition of cajon or flamenco piano means that the music is not puro, if you define puro as traditional, but it can still be flamenco if its in compas. The flute is a personal hatred of mine when added to the flamenco mix, I blame Peter and the Wolf for my flute phobia From what I have gathered from 9 years here working with flamencos is that they dont need to define flamenco ( like they dont need to count compas), they know what it is. I think Puro flamenco could be defined as cante and/or dance accompanied, or not, by guitar, in compas ( provided by the guitar, the dance or palmas) which vary according to the palo. Each palo could then be further defined. Personally I have along way to go learning to identify the various palos. The other night at the Jerez Festival it was pointed out that unusually the guitar had played a fandango while the singer sang a malagueña ( if I got that wrong correct me some-one who was there, Sean, Fergus, Simon, Veetus if you are reading this) though I have to say that passed me by. Anyway everyone agreed it was all muy muy flamenco. Jose Merce sings puro and also sings a pop style. It is very apparant to everyone which is which. When you go to a flamenco concert the audience is made up of aficionados shouting out the odd ole. If he is doing his pop flamenco then the audience is made up of young girls singing along. Purists may be criticised for setting themselves up as guardians of flamenco but when you look at the number of people claiming to be doing 'flamenco' it is refreshing and potentially vital for flamenco that people are prepared to say when the king has no clothes. Kate
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Emilio Maya Temple http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya
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Date Mar. 3 2006 21:47:17
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Kate
Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía
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RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to Doitsujin)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Doitsujin Today they publish many crancy things on "flamenco" CDs. For example Nina Pastori.. is she 100% flamenco? I dont think so. Or Tomatitos Rumba "pa´Salinas" on aguadulce? Nino de Puras new album "pozo y caudal"? Or Paco de Lucias Rumba "Casa Bernardo"? If these tracks could be called flamenco.. than Ottmar Liebert is Flamenco, too. Everyone is trying to be commercial I guess. And no reason why Tomatitio or Paco or anyone should not experiment away, play jazz, collaborate with other styles and attract a wider audience. When they play flamenco, it is recognisably flamenco. I agree that Nina Pastori is now considered as pop, but her early stuff wasn't and I'm told she still sings in the penas and obviously does not do her pop stuff. Its not that blurred, I saw Son de la Frontera in Jerez, great show, flamenco based cuban fusion with the emphasis on flamenco, great compas. They got a standing ovation but no-one was confused as to what was going on or critical that they were experimenting. Kate
_____________________________
Emilio Maya Temple http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Mar. 3 2006 23:21:53
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