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This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
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Maybe not Brazilian Playboy material, but she was a dancer. You know how that goes: "Mr. Jones strikes up a conversation with a black-haired flamenco dancer You know she dances while his father plays guitar She's suddenly beautiful We all want something beautiful"
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
quote:
Here's an article about Iris Caldwell, who sort of inspired "I saw her standing there" by the Beatles.
Not bad, Miguel, but she has not aged as well as Heloisa Eneida Menezes Pais Pinto, the girl who inspired "The Girl From Ipanema," as she walked by the beach front "Veloso Bar" every day while Antonio Carlos Jobim and Vinicius de Moraes were drinking inside.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
Posts: 357
Joined: Dec. 5 2008
From: New Jersey USA
RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to c)
"Hip-hop is not music, in my estimation. (If music resolves.) Hip-hop does not progress, it revolves, replicates, sticks to the floor. It is not approximate emotion. It is approximate obsession. The "voice", the bard, the oracle, the messenger, the minister of propaganda intricately, saucily rhymes, chugs, foreshortens, sneers, insinuates, retreats. The voice betrays no emotion; has none; this is not rage, but cleverness. Too wise. Too sly. A dictatorship of rhyme. There is a message; the message is masonic; the conveyance too dense; deep as a trance. The voice is preoccupied and always in the present. It is the voice of schizophrenia. It is bad advice. It is the voice of battle--Beowulf, Edda, the madder psalms--the voice justifies endlessly. What is going to happen if you don't stop this! On and on and on. Slamming the table. It is the post-lude to music. Long after emotion has been flung from the bone, the beat remains. The beat plows through the rubble of music, turning under the broken arches of melody, stabbing about for rhyming shards--raising them, rubbing them together rhythmically--trying to ignite."
Thus sayeth Richard Rodriguez, in Brown, 2002. Good book.
RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to runner)
quote:
"Hip-hop is not music, in my estimation. (If music resolves.) Hip-hop does not progress, it revolves, replicates, sticks to the floor. It is not approximate emotion. It is approximate obsession. The "voice", the bard, the oracle, the messenger, the minister of propaganda intricately, saucily rhymes, chugs, foreshortens, sneers, insinuates, retreats. The voice betrays no emotion; has none; this is not rage, but cleverness. Too wise. Too sly. A dictatorship of rhyme. There is a message; the message is masonic; the conveyance too dense; deep as a trance. The voice is preoccupied and always in the present. It is the voice of schizophrenia. It is bad advice. It is the voice of battle--Beowulf, Edda, the madder psalms--the voice justifies endlessly. What is going to happen if you don't stop this! On and on and on. Slamming the table. It is the post-lude to music. Long after emotion has been flung from the bone, the beat remains. The beat plows through the rubble of music, turning under the broken arches of melody, stabbing about for rhyming shards--raising them, rubbing them together rhythmically--trying to ignite."
Those are great lyrics for a rap song, you just have to insert a line break everytime there's ponctuation on that text
RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to Sr. Martins)
quote:
you just have to insert a line break everytime there's ponctuation on that text
One of the reasons I don't like most rap is that it is so predictable with the rhyme schemes. Most rap fits into samey rhythm templates that are intrinsically, well, boring.
And the beat is monochromatic.
If most rap songs where visually translatable into paintings, they would be large grey rectangles with a tiny bit if fuzzy lint stuck to the surface.
RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to kudo)
quote:
quote:
It seems to me that Flamenco attracts people from all kinds of music genres
not really, i dont like other genres of music... i never liked music before i met flamenco..
Typical of your non-logic Kudo. First you say no to the idea stated; that flamenco attracts people from many other genres of music. Then in the same line of mis-punctuated text, as I would not call it an actual proper sentence, you say you never liked music before flamenco. So you're saying you are not interested in other music, yet you imply that you know that people from other genres don't like flamenco.
You're like an enigma wrapped in bacon, then deep fried in discombobulated silliness.
RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to estebanana)
quote:
First you say no to the idea stated; that flamenco attracts people from many other genres of music
yes, i say no-because i didnt have a genre. i although i was forced to play classical music as a kid, i never liked it ..
quote:
you say you never liked music before flamenco.
yes, I would not listen to anything
quote:
So you're saying you are not interested in other music,
yes, I might kind of like something in other music, but doesnt mean im interested in that genre
quote:
yet you imply that you know that people from other genres don't like flamenco.
never mentioned anything about people..dont know where you are getting that from, which makes me think that you are the master enigma wrapped in bacon, then deep fried in discombobulated silliness.
quote:
Then in the same line of mis-punctuated text, as I would not call it an actual proper sentence
RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to estebanana)
I have broken no important grammar rules I hope and did have some proper training for music but it was so long ago that by now, I have found most of the funest music is about breaking rules
RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to c)
Hey i just came across this chart. Anyone knows why this is? I think i saw another chart too, about the "amount of knowledge about other genres", but cant find it right now. I wonder whether there might be a correlation to this chart?
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Posts: 357
Joined: Dec. 5 2008
From: New Jersey USA
RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to Sr. Martins)
Perhaps Hip-hop is bested regarded as chanted diatribe, in the form of "poetry". But it can be considered music, sensu lato, if Milton Babbitt's serialism, or maybe aleatoric or "chance", music, is considered music. Maybe flatulence is music. All a matter of definition. Being somewhat of a traditionalist, though, I prefer at least a suggestion of the presence of all three of our old friends Melody, Harmony, and Rhythm. I often settle for two out of three.
RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to runner)
quote:
But it can be considered music, sensu lato, if Milton Babbitt's serialism, or maybe aleatoric or "chance", music, is considered music. Maybe flatulence is music. All a matter of definition.
Interesting you mention Milton Babbitt in relating to Rap/Hip hop. I often hear rappers and hip hoppers being interviewed talking about how they pioneered the ideas they call 'sampling', it always makes be guffaw loudly at the claim. It was exactly composers like Milton Babbitt who first started working on scores that were comprised of pre recorded and manipulated music or sounds. Namely, Musique Concrete was the French movement just post WWII into the 1950's that was based in sound sampling techniques. There are even older examples of manipulation of recorded sounds.
One of the definitions of music is that it is a duration of time marked out in some way and in that time a structure of sounds happen with alternating silences and soundings. Kind of a loose definition, but that makes a lot of things music, but all music is not musical even if it is definably music.
This definition makes the definition of music work for and against you. You can call something music which many others will not like, and vice versa.
So when Cage wrote the famous piece called 4'33" he was essentially bracketing time and saying within this formal time duration what ever happens is music. It served to make the listener accept or deny the definition of music I mentioned above, but it also served to allow one, or prompt one to hear music in everything. Besides being a clever idea, 4'33" is listening experience where you make the music by putting the sounds around you into a context. After you accept that the world sounds different forever after. Of course many composers throughout the history of music had reached that state without Cage's prompts, but the public was not ready for the musics is inspired and basically still are not.
When you listen to Miles Davis' album 'In a Silent Way' you can hear the influence of Cage or Musique Concrete and the aleatoric ideas that were in the air. A lot of the music on that album is basically a soundscape or sound poem created to give an impression of New York City at night as you would hear it sitting in your window over the street. Miles music was heard as much hipper than Milton Babbit's and more generally understood than Cages, but there are connections.
I wish I knew much more about music, it is fascinating stuff.
Posts: 357
Joined: Dec. 5 2008
From: New Jersey USA
RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to estebanana)
Banana, you certainly would appreciate the Leonard Meyer book, Music, the Arts, and Ideas, that I put forward in a previous post--Meyer digs into many of the issues that intrigue people about what music is and how it works and some more besides (the future of all of the arts). It may be, though, that the human nervous system is hard-wired to not accept as "music"-- meaning I want to hear a lot more of this sound/noise--serialism, or aleatoric music, or a lot of what passed as the coming thing in music. When Babbitt was awarded a special Pulitzer for his efforts in "modern" music, I wrote a Letter to the Editor, pointing out that nobody ever wanted to come to even free concerts of modern music. This while Babbitt and his tiny Band of Brothers alternated between complaining about the lack of funds to put on such concerts (nobody was interested), and saying sourly that "modern" composers ought to forget a larger public and write their stuff--if that's the term--only for each other. It is becoming clearer that serialism, and aleatoric, and other where's the melody? musics were really just dead ends, and will live only as a footnote in any history of future music.
RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to c)
Sorry to bring back this old discussion but I've been chewing on this question for a while lately and thought it might fit in here:
What did/do professional Flamenco players/stars think about other genres? Like, it is known Paco loved Jazz. But did he like Rock music?
Or Camaron.. what kind of music was he into besides Flamenco? Did they even listen to other kinds of music or were they completely spun up in the world and music of Flamenco?
I mean.. it was the 60s to 80s, loads of great music and albums came out.
What's with the "old timers"? Manolo Caracol.. Sabicas.. Nino Ricardo..
To also add something to the actual topic: I'm quite into some Progressive Rock, namely King Crimson, Pink Floyd, Porcupine Tree I like quite a bit, as well as into some Folk and other Rock-related genres.
Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to Deniz)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Deniz
Sorry to bring back this old discussion but I've been chewing on this question for a while lately and thought it might fit in here:
What did/do professional Flamenco players/stars think about other genres? Like, it is known Paco loved Jazz. But did he like Rock music?
Or Camaron.. what kind of music was he into besides Flamenco? Did they even listen to other kinds of music or were they completely spun up in the world and music of Flamenco?
I mean.. it was the 60s to 80s, loads of great music and albums came out.
What's with the "old timers"? Manolo Caracol.. Sabicas.. Nino Ricardo..
To also add something to the actual topic: I'm quite into some Progressive Rock, namely King Crimson, Pink Floyd, Porcupine Tree I like quite a bit, as well as into some Folk and other Rock-related genres.
In Rito y Geografia Lebrijano talks about pop rock genres that interest him. Also they show Chocolate sing some popular spanish song for fun with a totally different type of singing voice. I would say you can extrapolate from there that most of them and us like other genres but prioritize our time around flamenco for good reason. The story of Rayito, who was a virtuoso flamenco guitar prodigy who found a career creating Latin pop songs for the likes of Shakira and others, is a unique case.
RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to c)
quote:
I would say you can extrapolate from there that most of them and us like other genres but prioritize our time around flamenco for good reason.
Well put, Ricardo!
The more I get into flamenco guitar playing, the more I notice how focusing on listening to and playing flamenco becomes a neccesity in order to not only get into the right mindset, but also because this is very artful and hard to play/sing music, which demands nothing less but all of you.
..yet still.. I can't help but to grab that Crimson Islands LP from the shelf or jam along a bit to Jimi's Purple Haze on my simple strat or swing my hips to some funky RHCP song every now and then.
RE: Your musical interest apart from... (in reply to c)
When I only listened to flamenco, I still listened to other genres. Once I started playing flamenco, I realised there is barely enough time in life for anything else.
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