Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995

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Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995

Here is a short recital I hadn’t seen before. I love his album with Gerardo Nuñez and he sings some of the same letras here with Tomatito. He is also called “El Moro” and sings on Tauromagia under that name.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 9 2019 22:02:59

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to Ricardo)

For Devilhand- At 9.25 you can see El Indio Gitano coming in earlier than Tomatito expects. Tomatito finishes a falseta and starts a llamada but El Indio takes the end of the falseta as his cue and has already come in. Tomatio immediately adjusts into accompanying the cante.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 10 2019 9:31:41

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to Ricardo)

I enjoy the raw power aire (and the sartorial expression) here:

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 10 2019 9:34:53

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to orsonw)

quote:

For Devilhand- At 9.25 you can see El Indio Gitano coming in earlier than Tomatito expects. Tomatito finishes a falseta and starts a llamada but El Indio takes the end of the falseta as his cue and has already come in. Tomatio immediately adjusts into accompanying the cante

Thanks orsonw. At 9:25, Tomatito was like oh ****. It looks as if Tomatito were disturbed right after he starts peeing.

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 10 2019 11:55:51

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to Ricardo)

Hard to believe he's from Extremadura and not Jerez

Possibly my favourite cantaor.
There's also some material of him in the Extremadura episode of rito y geografia del cante, that I found interesting.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 10 2019 13:46:26

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

quote:

For Devilhand- At 9.25 you can see El Indio Gitano coming in earlier than Tomatito expects. Tomatito finishes a falseta and starts a llamada but El Indio takes the end of the falseta as his cue and has already come in. Tomatio immediately adjusts into accompanying the cante

Thanks orsonw. At 9:25, Tomatito was like oh ****. It looks like Tomatito is disturbed right after he starts peeing.

To be fair to El Indio Gitano; Tomatito completes a 2 compas falseta (start 9.08), and then Tomaito's next compas (start 9.19) does sound like he is resolving and inviting the cante.

To be fair to Tomatito he has got his eyes closed and looking up so his body language is not inviting cante.

At 9.55 you can see they make sure to confirm what's happening next with eye contact/body language.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 10 2019 14:40:35

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to orsonw)

Or Indio didn’t feel like waiting and Tomatito is like “come on old man”

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 10 2019 15:31:21

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to orsonw)

Solea starts at 6:05. The part from 6:05 to 6:28 (intro?) sounds like it's free from 12 beat compas. Am I right?
Even from 6:28 onwards Tomatito plays with no compas except for the last 3 beats 10 11 12, which can be heard easily. What's happening there?

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2019 16:53:17

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to devilhand)

.

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2019 17:07:28

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

.

Ah, good point!

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2019 18:59:40

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to kitarist)

Thank you. I thought so too.

Sorry about that. Not sure what I did there. I was saying that for the first ten seconds or so he's just tuning, and then it's in compas but not cuadrado. Something like that.

I can't believe you didn't pick up on all that with the "." though. Ah, men!

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2019 19:17:43

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilhand

Solea starts at 6:05. The part from 6:05 to 6:28 (intro?) sounds like it's free from 12 beat compas. Am I right?
Even from 6:28 onwards Tomatito plays with no compas except for the last 3 beats 10 11 12, which can be heard easily. What's happening there?

Basically he is not playing metronomic always...it’s called “elastic” tempo, or rubato. He is always giving accents when singing is going on, even if subtle. Please read through this... I’m sorry it’s confusing with the deleted posts but you can get the gist.
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=167134&mpage=1&p=&tmode=1&smode=1&key=mairena

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2019 21:59:24

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

Solea starts at 6:05. The part from 6:05 to 6:28 (intro?) sounds like it's free from 12 beat compas. Am I right?
Even from 6:28 onwards Tomatito plays with no compas except for the last 3 beats 10 11 12, which can be heard easily. What's happening there?

sounds fine to me from the golpe at 6:16, and from 6:22 it's damn near metronomic, with just some very slight speeding up and slowing down with the accents (accelerating approaching accents, then hanging on them slightly etc.). Completely normal in Soleá. Listen to another 1,000 hours and come back to this and listen again!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2019 22:25:35

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

I was saying that for the first ten seconds or so he's just tuning, and then it's in compas but not cuadrado. Something like that.

Yep, up to 6:16-6:17 he is just checking his tuning. From there on I'd say the compas is very strong, even though in a couple of places the passage of time gets stretched and compressed.

I was thinking, so why is this not 'out of compas'? And I think some part of the answer is, because Tomatito is able to communicate clearly the stretching and compressing of time, so there is no contradiction between a listener's sense of time and his sense of time. Instead, you go for a ride and feel the turns and twists without losing the compas.

He is able to do this via the accents and the familiarity of the phrasing within a compas and overall. His accents and phrasing stay exactly right in the modified flow of time; the compas structure is preserved.

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2019 22:34:44