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Flamenco forums and people come and go
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rickm
Posts: 446
Joined: Jan. 23 2004
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 RE: Flamenco forums and people come ... (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)
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I guess this could be a reply to this and the Using forums post just above it. I think that part of the problem might be that people just dont know what they are posting. We have to remember this a a fairly blind medium. by that Imean you dont get to see body language, words are misconstued and certainly intent. Someone can qualify a piece has having too many notes (gee havent I heard that about Hendrix before) and it might be meant constructively. For that person that flow of musicality is not pleasant to the ear. To a shredder or PDL or Sabicas it migh be. I think we have to educate people and be patient, admittedly a lot of people use this forum that English is a 2nd language. Do they actually mean harm? I have taken a little heat a long time ago for a off handed remark that was meant to be funny and people took it wrong, as a slam. I was cautioned if you will by a couple of people, good advice, but I let it drop as I felt the whole thing was taken out of context. it seems to me that if someone does something offensive, then perhaps he can be given advise on proper forum manners and if it continues, then the person blocked etc etc. I dont think we should be too drastice. There are several really good players on this forum that might need to be patient with the rest of us learners bees as we do tend to ask for reduntant advice, but are as much of all this as the ones that are accomplished. If I have a complaint it is that sometimes the less accomplished are not taken as serious as the more accomplished and that can make for bad feelings as well. We are all works in progress I might remind and I would offer that any group who feels they are too elite to be patient with the lessor is a serious problem in itself. Copyright not withstanding and I dont see a lot of violations there, the forum runs pretty well. For the most part everyone is cooperative, shares ideas and communicates with a spirit of community. Lets not get too drastic in ostracizing people because we think they might have badness in their soul.
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Date Feb. 12 2006 16:09:38
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Ricardo
Posts: 14844
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Flamenco forums and people come ... (in reply to Guest)
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Sendero,
Honestly I am sorry agout your forum. Awhile back a "guest" posted a link to possibly your forum, and I said a sarcastic comment about it. The reason is because, even though I am a modern player, I have defended D. de Gastor against harsh unfair criticizm numerous times. I have defended also many great modern players from equally unfair attacks. I was imagining what the forum would be like, hence my sarcastic statement. Anyway, I appologize for it, it is a shame what happened.
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=28086&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1
I remember it was the same old anonamous guitarist I argued with about nunez and gastor. I would bet money he caused trouble on your forum too. Seems like the harm of one internet terrorist can go a long way.
Ricardo
PS, interms of copywrited stuff and flamenco. Like simon said he was concerned about linking to a site doing bad stuff, not necessarily the flamenco stuff going here or what was linked to. I studied Legal aspects of music business in college. As far as music and law, unless you are talking pop artists, you are talking really small potitos. I am ready for any pro bono lawyer looking to go after flamenco aficionados, I have a lot to say about it LOL. Talk about A LOT of investigative work for really small winnings. For example, the folks copying the PDL box set, all 30 discs then selling it on EBAY, repeatedly. Yeah it is wrong, yeah it is the biggest name in flamenco, yeah it is an expensive box, but no lawyer in the world would waste their time on that. Now imagine some obscure bootleg videos of barely known artists? Even the flamenco movie? There are far greener pastures for lawyers and musicians copywrite issues.
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Date Feb. 12 2006 22:49:21
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sorin popovici
Posts: 427
Joined: Jan. 7 2005
From: Iasi, Romania
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RE: Flamenco forums and people come ... (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)
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written text will never express very well what a man wants to say.It's like writing in standard
notation flamenco probably...maybe u could get it,but at the time u get it...nobody is interested anymore.
Look..."I have a dream"  .I hope that I will be here for sometime,and I imagine that if we'll
know each other better ..quarrels will apear more rarely.
I hope that sometime(not now ...i'm still in school,damn) we will get together like the people
in PDL's forum.
I mean why (excuse the example) Ricardo never fights with Toddk? well,it's simple...they
shared so much together that a simple bad word(or smth that is interpreted as bad) is easier to let it pass ,since 2 minutes of smth bad can not deny 20 years of friendship.
(sorry for the example,but u mentioned that u are neighbours...and another example is hard to find).
So,betweeen older members(i'm not that old,but I hope to be accepted in the future)
...we just got to wait ,meet from time to time,share memories and that's it.
The other things ...about what u can say as a joke or not,this is a very complicated issue..
look at the danish drawings issue (with the Mohammad prohet) and u'll see that the entire
world still... can not put the finger and draw a line and say "this is good,this is freedom of expression" and "this is not good,cause it offends people".So I really dont
think we\ll ever resolve this matter,we just to broad our minds and hearts...but we cant
anticipate ,how should we feel then...cause u cant think a more complicated thought just cause u want,u have to wait to be able(same is for playing also probably,I want ...but I got
to wait).
But we have to try to like smth,an acquired taste ...is not less enjoyable because u get it
by education(i'm still learning that).So....I dont like to quarrel about how rumba is not really
flamenco,about flashy picado that are not really music ....come on man,everything is music
even the silence (well,I admit ...that is not that enjoyable ,but whatever).
Still ,chating is nice... ,I so love my coffee now.
Also that danish drawings issue ...should learn us to tolerate more,like...a bad joke is a bad joke ...dont laugh ...but to kill people for a joke.I say when u get a bad joke,if u think that the author can understand why u think it's a bad joke...explain it to him,but dont waste your time if u feel like he's not there yet.If u care about that person opinion,teach him...if not do
not pretend that u are willing to learn him the right way,if u dont have the time.
BLA,BLA...etc
more concise ...in my romania there is this saying "fa ce zice popa ,nu ce face popa".
Translation : "do what the priest says ,not what the priest does" .I dont know how will u feel that is related to this subject ,but it is...as it says to you to follow the truth in men ,and
not their actions....cause everybody can make a bad joke.
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Date Feb. 13 2006 0:50:36
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Escribano
Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy
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RE: Flamenco forums and people come ... (in reply to XXX)
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quote:
Its just that we need some sticky, clear rules, set up by you I think.
Our Forum Agreement is pretty clear and common sense shoud apply:
quote:
4. Upload, or otherwise make available, files that contain images, photographs, software or other material protected by (i) intellectual property laws, including, by way of example, and not as limitation, copyright or trademark laws or (ii) by rights of privacy or publicity, if any unless you own or control the rights thereto or have received all necessary consents to do the same.
5. Use any material or information, including images or photographs, which are made available through Flamenco Forum - Flamenco Guitar, Song & Dance in any manner that infringes any copyright, trademark, patent, trade secret, or other proprietary right of any party.
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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
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Date Feb. 13 2006 8:58:24
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Ricardo
Posts: 14844
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Flamenco forums and people come ... (in reply to sorin popovici)
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quote:
I mean why (excuse the example) Ricardo never fights with Toddk? well,it's simple...they
shared so much together that a simple bad word(or smth that is interpreted as bad) is easier to let it pass ,since 2 minutes of smth bad can not deny 20 years of friendship.
(sorry for the example,but u mentioned that u are neighbours...and another example is hard to find).
Your point is really good, although in our case you are off. If we ALL could meet face to face, things would be different for sure. Truth is, I MET toddk on the internet. Strange since he lived close by (1hr). Honestly, flamenco is a VERY small world once you start involving yourself deeper. Not impossible to think we can all meet each other at some point. Anyway, yeah, we were not always best buds, we had fights before we met face to face. I vaguely remember being challenged by some folks to reveal credability or something so I hit back with a challenge to simply meet me and play together, face to face. Todd called me on it, we jammed...mutual respect ensued. Ok, he is confident, I am confident...different than ego maniac.
If we both had this ego problem, how could we even play together at all? I have met people in flamenco that are actually "too good" to sit down with me for just awhile and play guitar. Ever since my father died, I really get bugged by people who refuse the invite to play informally, but I try hard not to make a big deal of it. Ego problems come from insecurities. But if people want to say that is what is "wrong" with guys like me and Todd, fine let em.
Just be clear, I am not the kind of guy to pat someone on the back and kiss their butt just because I want to be friends. I am not above having an arguement with Todd. If it happens it happens, no need to become anonomous and call him names. I don't owe Todd anything either. I did some vids at his house, but I have others, so no need to kiss up to him to save "2 years of internet bliss". I really feel the guy deserves RESPECT, and yet he gets out right attacked sometimes. I am not above getting mad and saying strong stuff in retaliation, I would do the same in his shoes (as he has supposedly done in the past), maybe MUCH worse. I can't say cause no one attacked me like that. The guy seems to me to get more than the recommended doseage of unfair criticizm.
Ron is another guy I have always respected, and certainly have given him grief regarding FLmetronomes, and Fandangos de Huelva, etc. I am an honest guy and don't want to sugar coat things if I really feel strong about it, or "confident" that my point of view has validity. Well you don't see him calling me names either. Also Florian, I argue with him too. Doitsujin said a section of my playing "sucked". I agreed with him. Sean, where did he go? I really felt he had tons of knowleadge, but I know how I can rub people wrong. I actually feel bad about that incident. Anyway I am who I am, Todd is who Todd is, etc. At least we don't hide who we are. And start trouble for no reason.
Ricardo
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Date Feb. 13 2006 9:46:48
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Florian
Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia
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RE: Flamenco forums and people come ... (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)
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We have a good thing here really, i mean in your everyday life you meet people u just cant stomach sometimes, there is not one single user here that i feel that way about. I feel every user here is a genuine person.
I feel comfortable and happy to talk to anyone here there is a certain respect here we have for one another even when we happen to disagree.
I have never ever tought i could like and respect so much a person i argue (disagree) with almost every week until i meet Ron  I never tought id enjoy arguing so much until i meet Ron.
I have never ever held grudges and never will, i think the longhest grudge i can hold is about 2 days max i find it very exausting.
I look up to members here for all kind of reasons, skill, character, personality, sense of houmor, real people, and we just happen to have a good selection of everything.
It is kind of cool when u been here a while and other members get to know your sense of houmor , and you can afford to be a litlle more yourself without the fear of beeing missunderstood, and Henrik i love the way you play, i dont care what they say about u.
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Date Feb. 13 2006 14:18:57
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