Vuelta a flamenco

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Vuelta a flamenco

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Morante

Posts: 2178
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

Vuelta a flamenco

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2018 14:35:08

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Morante)

I love Manuel Moneo, I like how his son is almost singing along with him, you can tell there's tons of admiration there.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2018 23:32:03

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Morante)

Mas Manuel.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2018 7:01:35

Morante

Posts: 2178
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Morante)

Is there any way to reconvert this foro into a foro flamenco?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2018 14:58:10

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Morante)

quote:

Is there any way to reconvert this foro into a foro flamenco?

What exactly is it that you are expecting to see here?
Todays active topics are a discussion in lutherie, this thread, and a cante accompaniment thread....Doesn't seem that far off base to me.....
Vuelta implies that this foro used to be muy flamenco and now it's not, in my reading it doesn't seem like it's changed all that much at all......

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 28 2018 17:10:15

Morante

Posts: 2178
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Leñador)

Have a look at recent posts: the great majority are about guitars. Is it really important for a flamenco to know if a guitar is varnished inside?

Do you think a cantaors really cares if his tocaor has a Conde or a Reyes or a noname? I once accompanied Rancapino on a beach guitar because its owner had read that good guitars get wrecked in juergas. But Rancapino didn´t care.

This is a forum for guitar freaks.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 29 2018 15:20:23

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Morante)

To be fair, the varnishing thread is in the lutherie section.....
I’d agree that there’s more guitar conversation than I’d prefer but it’s really to be expected. Of ALLLL the foreigners that end up really getting into Flamenco, how many of them got into it because of cante? The guitar is the gateway drug and the real addicts end up main lining cante eventually.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 29 2018 15:46:47

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Morante)

quote:

Is it really important for a flamenco to know if a guitar is varnished inside? Do you think a cantaors really cares if his tocaor has a Conde or a Reyes or a noname?

Whether or not a flamenco considers it important to know if a guitar is varnished inside, or whether a cantaor really cares if his tocaor has a Conde or a Reyes or a noname is beside the point. Who cares what any particular cantaor thinks about the guitar his tocaor is playing, or if he thinks about it at all? If certain members of the Foro consider lutherie and make of guitar important, that is reason enough for comment, although one hopes the comments reflect some degree of knowledge and expertise rather than something gleaned from the internet masquerading as the poster's own thoughts. But that applies to any topic discussed on the Foro.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 29 2018 19:37:00

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Morante)

Tengo un idea Morante. You post amazing videos, and I'm willing to bet people would take more interest if you dispersed some of your knowledge along with the video. IE "This video is perfect example of..... Notice how at the third tercio...." Or something to that affect. We want the knowledge but watching things that are over our head is, well, over our head. There's tons of flamenco recordings that I liked, then when I found out more about it and understood it better, I loved it.

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 30 2018 2:58:26

edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Morante)

I agree with you Morante, BarkellWH, and Leñador 😊!
I really enjoy your knowledgeable contributions Morante, and although I've been into flamenco for over 40 years (egad), I still feel I'm just dabbling ... So Leñador's idea sounds good to me (albeit more work for you).
I love to find out more about my instrument, the guitar, independently of wether or not that information is relevant to flamenco (of course there's that irrational hope it'll somehow "open up" my yet hidden skills

).
So, yes, wether or not a guitar is varnished on the inside isn't really relevant to cante, and, yes flamenco is CANTE, and, yes, the foro is guitar focussed...
So how about a section of it's own, dedicated to cante? That way anybody visiting the foro would see it's importance. (Simon?)
Just my two cents...

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Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 30 2018 9:23:00

henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to edguerin)

I watch and listen to this video a lot, as ive learnt a few of Miguel Salado's Falsetas and watch and observe how he integrates them in real performances.

This performance, brings a tear to the eye. such feeling and emotion, and the crowd give Manuel a great bit of encouragement.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 30 2018 11:53:26

Morante

Posts: 2178
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

Tengo un idea Morante.

I have another one: I retire from the foro because i am cansao.

Also, I have just been invited to be a member of the Cátedra de Flamenco de Cádiz, the first and only guiri. Their idea is to protect and promote the real cante de Cádiz, so I should feel more at home there than in the Foro.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 30 2018 23:37:03

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Morante)

quote:

I have another one: I retire from the foro because i am cansao.

Also, I have just been invited to be a member of the Cátedra de Flamenco de Cádiz, the first and only guiri. Their idea is to protect and promote the real cante de Cádiz, so I should feel more at home there than in the Foro.

Congratulations and fair enough, as much as you actively dislike this place I’m surprised you lasted this long.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 30 2018 23:40:30

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Morante)

I’m hoping you stick around, Morante.

My knowledge is about the guitar as an instrument, so that’s what I am most comfortable discussing. I joined the Foro last year because Simon expressed concern that it was dying due to lack of interest. I felt that, after ten years of lurking, it was probably time for me to belly up to the bar and at least attempt to contribute.

But musically, Cante is what interests me and that’s what I listen to. I only dabble in playing and, maybe because of that, there are not that many soloist guitar albums that hold my interest. Of recent releases I really enjoy Manuel Parilla’s album but I have a hard time getting through some of the others, even though I really enjoy the players when they are accompanying Cante.

At any rate, I don’t really have much to say about this beyond that I’ve always appreciated your posts and I hope that you continue to make them.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2018 0:01:24

JasonM

Posts: 2052
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Morante)

We can talk about Gerundino if that makes you happy ;)

Actually. We should turn this into a Conde thread

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2018 0:32:34

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Morante)

quote:

I have another one: I retire from the foro because i am cansao (sic).

I believe you meant "cansado," not cansao.

In any case, as much as you appear to dislike the Foro and the contributions of most of its members, both you and the Foro will probably be better off if you disengage and go your own way. This isn't just a ploy to get some members to beg you to stay is it?

Good luck in the future.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2018 0:52:31

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Morante)

quote:

I believe you meant "cansado," not cansao

That’s the Andalu way, the letter D gets no respect out there.

quote:

Of recent releases I really enjoy Manuel Parilla’s album but I have a hard time getting through some of the others, even though I really enjoy the players when they are accompanying Cante.

At any rate, I don’t really have much to say about this beyond that I’ve always appreciated your posts and I hope that you continue to make them.

+1

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2018 1:01:58

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Morante)

Congrats Morante for the Catedra thing.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2018 3:22:21

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Morante)

You've already made valuable, appreciated and respected promotions of real cante de Cadiz here. But if you'd rather see this place degrade yet further into forovicenteamigo then I suppose your choice is clear

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante
Their idea is to protect and promote the real cante de Cádiz

Great idea. So how are they going about doing that? UNESCO funded juergas with free vino?

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Ay compañerita de mi alma
tú ahora no me conoces.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2018 3:47:43

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to BarkellWH)

quote:

I believe you meant "cansado," not cansao.

Andalu'

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2018 10:05:57

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

Andalu'

Thanks Lenny and Simon. Wasn't thinking in "Andalu'"

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2018 10:42:34

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Dudnote)

quote:

But if you'd rather see this place degrade yet further into forovicenteamigo then I suppose your choice is clear.

A couple of years ago I opined on the Foro that, historically, Vicente Amigo would not be considered among the "greats" of flamenco, each in his era (Ramon Montoya, Nino Ricardo, Sabicas, Paco de Lucia, et al); that, moreover, Vicente Amigo's playing is the flamenco equivalent of elevator music. Stirred up a hornet's nest. You would have thought I had committed blasphemy, and to Amigo's fans on the Foro I suppose I had. It helps to have a thick skin when voicing opinions that go against the grain.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2018 11:47:31

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to BarkellWH)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BarkellWH
It helps to have a thick skin when voicing...

Asi que, volvemos al flamenco y el cante de Cadiz?

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Ay compañerita de mi alma
tú ahora no me conoces.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2018 12:38:16

edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Dudnote)

quote:

both you and the Foro will probably be better off if you disengage and go your own way

I most hartily disagree!

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Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2018 17:29:45

edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Leñador)

Congratulations for the Cátedra membership!
I'd understand if you decided to dedicate your energy there rather than here, but it would be a great loss IMO. So please stay.

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Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2018 17:31:51

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to BarkellWH)

quote:

I believe you meant "cansado," not cansao.

Lol no he meant Cansao.... and probably that you tried to correct him, another perfect reason why he thinks nobody is flamenco enough around here.

But let’s be honest... the out of tune crooning gets really annoying... here THIS is the greatest thing to ever happen in flamenco, and notice the Conde the Conde and the other Conde

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2018 17:32:25

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Morante)

quote:

THIS is the greatest thing to ever happen in flamenco,

Oh man, you’re gunna push poor Morante off the deep end.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2018 17:53:58

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Lol no he meant Cansao.... and probably that you tried to correct him, another perfect reason why he thinks nobody is flamenco enough around here.

As I stated above, I wasn't thinking in Andalu'. Simon and Lenny pointed it out, and your contribution is duly noted as well. My appreciation to all.

As to what set him off about the Foro not being flamenco enough, below is a direct quote from him.

"Have a look at recent posts: the great majority are about guitars. Is it really important for a flamenco to know if a guitar is varnished inside? Do you think a cantaors really cares if his tocaor has a Conde or a Reyes or a noname? I once accompanied Rancapino on a beach guitar because its owner had read that good guitars get wrecked in juergas. But Rancapino didn´t care. This is a forum for guitar freaks."

Pretty clear what his objection to the Foro is.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2018 19:17:00

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Morante)

The foro needs more flauta. We could discuss the best polishes and methods to remove la humedad.

I wonder if Jorge Pardo has a beach flute

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2018 21:10:08

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Vuelta a flamenco (in reply to Morante)

Morante-

Congratulations on your membership in the Cátedra.

I confess to being a guitar freak, if it is not already obvious enough. It is not for lack of interest in the cante. Like most Americans it took a while for my interest in cante to occcur, then to mature somewhat. But there are no worthwhile cantaores here in central Texas, at least none whom I know about. So my daily involvement in flamenco is pretty much my own playing, going to see the infrequent touring companies--all guitar centered--and the Foro. We do plan to spend some time at the Bienal come September.

I have really appreciated your contributions. My introduction to the cante was in Madrid in the early 1960s. My further acquaintance was due almost entirely to many recordings, but particularly the "Gran Antologia," and "Rito y Geografia." The collected recordings of La Niña de los Peines, put out by the Junta de Andalucia have been an education for me. For contemporary cante there is Youtube. I have particularly appreciated your posts here on the Foro. If you should change your mind and stay, I would be sure to follow your contributions.

Thanks,

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2018 21:24:37