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Flamenco Performance. Is this worth watching?
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Ryan002
Posts: 173
Joined: Oct. 18 2005
From: Singapore
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 RE: Flamenco Performance. Is this wo... (in reply to Skai)
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First off, let me just point out that ANY major Flamenco activity in S.E. Asia will be organized by Japan and not any other country in the vicinity. Japan has a flamenco scene that rivals Spain and Latin America.
Secondly, Singapore is not as much a flamenco deset as most people think. Usually it is because very few people approach the older Eurasian guitarists about this, many of whom know rudiments of Flamenco. Also, some of us have been trained by Fillipino instructors, who have strong Spanish influences and do recognize this form of music. Our greatest generation of musicians, the now vanished Golden Venus legends like Rotting Bodies, Stray Dogs, etc. are rumored to have encountered Flamenco as far back as the 60's, if you can find any to ask (besides Siva Choy, who is the only remaining celebrity of the era). Dance Circle studios does, I believe, have Spanish instructors teaching Flamenco dance.
Thirdly, I think we should accept that Flamenco in S.E. Asia is an import, will be slightly localized, and therefore will never resemble exactly native Spanish flamenco. Nor should it. We should of course be fully conscious of the "non-original" implements we add, but at the same add our own flavour to it. Attempting to *be* Spanish is pretentious and deceitful, because ultimately we are not and never will be. We may lack the superior rhythmic sense of our European counterparts, but most of us have a grasp of dynamics and melody that is innate, that can be contributed.
Lastly, please support any flamenco activity or even interest in flamenco. We are not devoid of it but still at the point where we need the growing interest. Should it take root here, all of us will benefit.
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Date Feb. 2 2006 15:41:26
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Guest
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RE: Flamenco Performance. Is this wo... (in reply to Skai)
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Looks perfectly acceptable to me. Go for it and TELL us about it. I wanna know what´s going on in Singapore 
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Date Feb. 3 2006 7:22:29
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Skai
Posts: 317
Joined: Sep. 12 2004
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RE: Flamenco Performance. Is this wo... (in reply to Skai)
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Ryan, I've seen older guitarists who have encountered flamenco, and they play Spanishly stuff with rasgueados. But I don't want flamenco techniques, I want the real thing!
Flamenco dance seems to be getting a little more popular but guitar players are rare, and no I don't count in those who just play around with rasgueados.
Access to flamenco music and other material are also rather difficult. Now all I've to do is to find someone to go with, someone who won't laugh at the music and dancing.. Sure, many people attend solo flamenco guitar recitals, but it's obvious that most of them treat it as 'an exotic cultural performance' or simply the appreciation of another genre of music. Where's the true enjoyment if you distance yourself from the performance!? It's like drawing a clear line between the culture and yourself, instead of trying to immerse in it!
Anders, very little flamenco happens in Singapore, maybe only a few people actually immerse themselves in the culture. In fact to the younger generation, the nylon guitar is just 'a cheap beginner guitar to learn on'. After which you 'UPGRADE' to electric or acoustics. This statement shows the immaturity of many young people here.
Ryan made a post about ignorant people previously. Here are some intelligent statements that disappoint me immensely:
1. Classical guitar is easy because it's slow.
2. Classical guitars are for beginners to learn on, you upgrade to electrics and acoustics later on.
3. This guy is a flamenco pro, he plays this Malaguena and Farruca! (and the worst part is that the Malaguena happens to be the Spanish classical piece by Lecuono)
People are shocked by the price of my Alhambra 7Fc (SGD$1150). That's until I told them that one of my teacher's guitars costs $10k (a French guitar), and mind you, that was years back when $10k was ALOT of money!
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Try some Enrique Iglesias for some great cante.
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Date Feb. 3 2006 10:57:34
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Ryan002
Posts: 173
Joined: Oct. 18 2005
From: Singapore
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RE: Flamenco Performance. Is this wo... (in reply to Skai)
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For some reason, talk of assimilating into different cultures stabs me somewhere deep. It provokes a very strong and confused reaction in me, and has for a long time. Here's the bustle in my hedgerow.
When it comes to immersing myself in another culture...well it's difficult. I can't speak for others, but personally my mind is in Eastern Europe, my soul is in Latin America and my body is in Singapore. It's hard to fully immerse myself in anything, because there's always a part of me that reserves itself from total immersion. I feel like a subaltern or pretender if I try, and I have long since resigned myself to a limited degree of inclusion, in Flamenco, as in everything else.
That said, I have sometimes been under the impression that the main attraction of flamenco is to the dispossessed, the people who do not and proudly will not fit in. To me it's the essence of the former Ultraismo movement, the urban / rural displacement of the Martin Fiero legend and the sound of the outsider. I have a vague suspicion sometimes that I am already immersed in the culture because of an empathy that resonates so strongly with these elements. But that flash of arrogance passes and leaves only guilt and a blush.
When we say something is *like* something else, it does not mean similarity. It is in fact the strongest way of stating differance. To suugest that someone is *like* a Spainiard also immediately suggests she is explicity *not* a Spainiard. Otherwise the statement would merely be that "she IS a Spainiard". Semantics perhaps, but I think there's something keyed into the language structure which suggests a deep seated acknowledgement that authentic duplication is impossible, that all individuals are a culture of *one person*. There is perhaps no "real" Spaniard to imitate, but an image of them that we hold to be true. Just as there is no real Singaporean, merely seperate concepts of what constitutes a Singaporean that, looked at closely, contradict.
It has become increasingly difficult over the years for me to accept any solid defnition of anything, to accept the concept of any "real thing". It is a ceaseless debate I hold with myself, and it is the disease that will one day end me and perhaps birth an immoral monstrosity.
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Date Feb. 5 2006 13:44:50
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stevefox
Posts: 17
Joined: Nov. 5 2004
From: West
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RE: Flamenco Performance. Is this wo... (in reply to Skai)
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damn it i think i missed another flamenco event, didn't i?
hello dear cheston, i am still around, just coz my pc system crashed (again!) and after that i seldom logon to the net. please shout out loud next time whenever there is a flamenco show, :D, i dont want to miss any one of them.
yes agree with you guys, flamenco in singapore is struggling rather hard, it is not the right soil for flamenco here. no gigs == no chance of survival.
every time i play f on my guitar my girl will turn her head away, she prefers if i play something more jazzy or even traditional chinese tunes (like 'jasmine flower' etc.). she always said, it is not because i am not intereted in flamenco music, i like paco de lucia, but you are never going to be paco de lucia no matter how hard you are trying. damn it i think she's telling the truth! Attempting to *be* Spanish is pretentious and deceitful, as ryan says, i totally agree with it.
do you know one tanwanese flamenco guitarist named 'paco woo'? he learned flamenco under paco de lucia for 15 years and come home with great success in flamenco music, but then how? people only recognise him as a handsome bussiness pioneer instead of a guitarist not to mention 'a flamenco guy'. because he is still a chinese no matter how hard he tried to be gipsy. when he plays, it looks funny, or say, weired. maybe he is a mirror of US.
i still couldn't give up flamenco guitar but i am experimenting with some new stuff, maybe something ottmar liebert like music blended with chinese influence.
wish me luck buddies, :D (at least i saved my relationship with my girl...(again!) )
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Date Feb. 27 2006 9:15:06
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