A new Foro Flamenco proposal

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>General >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

sim999

Posts: 73
Joined: Aug. 18 2011

A new Foro Flamenco proposal

Hi,

I refuse to let the forum die and I believe we can keep it alive. I'm an IT engineer in web development with basic hosting knowledge. I can help.
The Foro has helped me as a beginner in the past and it can continue its mission for future members. It contains a ton of information and posts by really great players :
Ricardo, Jason, Grisha etc. It is also a social place to discover recordings, music, talk about guitar and other stuff too.

Here are some points to think on :

1 - Forum Software : we need a new up-to-date forum software : phpbb is a strong candidate although there are many modern alternatives available (nodeBB, discourse etc..) cause phpbb is old , built with old PHP versions, not responsive etc. I will study seriously the alternatives. I dont know the details about the attacks but running a deprecated forum engine expose us.

2- Hosting : Regarding hosting I don't know the current plan. But I will take somehing on https://www.gandi.net/ cause I know them. Best will be a LAMPP (linux, apache (or nginx), Mysql (Maria DB) and PHP) stack cause it's cheaper. Current statistics should guide our future choice. I don't know them actually.

3- Migration : This may be the difficult part, we'll need to migrate all the current data to the new forum software. I don't know if tools or libraries exist to help us on this point. Maybe I will have to write some code to migrate everything.

4-Financing : We need to set up a patreon (or something similar) in order to allow members to give something for the hosting. (If the current active members will give like 5$ per month for instance it will be sufficient). I think paying something to post on the forum or other stuff is a terrible idea. Posting should be open to everyone who subscribes for free if not the forum may as well die now.

What I propose for now : I will wait for Escribano response, best will be to create a shared folder on the cloud (google drive, dropbox or whatever) restricted to people who will contribute to the new foro. In this we should put some specifications well written regarding the points mentionned above. If Escribano agree we will need the current traffic statistics, the nature of the attacks, and technical information regarding the current architecture (current software forum, web server version, hosting plans etc).

Simon.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2017 9:18:46

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: A new Foro Flamenco proposal (in reply to sim999)

quote:

I'm an IT engineer in web development with basic hosting knowledge. I can help.

Thanks, I will reach out if we need help. I'll share the plans if they pan out.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2017 9:34:45

sim999

Posts: 73
Joined: Aug. 18 2011

RE: A new Foro Flamenco proposal (in reply to sim999)

Thanks for your fast reply Escribano. We can do this. I dont think it is that difficult. it will take some time but it is certainly not insurmountable. We should aim for something modern and fast, we are in 2017 there
are lots of available tools which can help us. If we need to write a bit of code I can do that (already done that in open source software).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2017 9:55:50

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: A new Foro Flamenco proposal (in reply to sim999)

quote:

We should aim for something modern and fast, we are in 2017 there
are lots of available tools which can help us. If we need to write a bit of code I can do that (already done that in open source software).

Thanks, I agree but I think I need to emphasise that the technology and capabilities are not the core issues here. I have been employed at Apple and Microsoft (twice) in an architectural role. I am a member of the British Computer Society and CTO of two tech. companies. I am aware of modern open source tools, as I use them all the time.

The attacks target Windows Server and the OS patches/updates/upgrades take more and more disk space and RAM, which costs more and more.

The real issues are the amount of time and money to upgrade, migrate and manage the thing versus the use it was getting. A basic consideration for a web site.

Now I see that there is a lot more interest in the forum for reference and as a community. This moves the dynamic from contribution to a kind of publishing/social hub and I am looking at a revised model, if it is to continue. If we do, it will be on a new platform and open source.

I hope this clarifies the situation.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2017 10:20:17

sim999

Posts: 73
Joined: Aug. 18 2011

RE: A new Foro Flamenco proposal (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

The real issues are the amount of time and money to upgrade, migrate and manage the thing versus the use it was getting. A basic consideration for a web site.

Yeah this is the difficulty. If only the forum could live by itself without ever doing anything :). I don't know how you plan to do this but the forum can't live on donations only. For the migration and the new platform installation it will be most welcome but after that I don't think it's sustainable so we have a big problem to solve there.

I agree with you regarding the open source platform. It is the only way to keep the cost low. We should not pay anything regarding software, like you said there are more than enough applications in the open source world. A linux server (debian, or something from redhat), nginx or apache (I wonder who use IIS these days apart from Microsoft and people depending on their tools), Maria DB, Postgresl (maybe overkill) should do the job perfectly. But the real problem is not technical

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2017 12:08:18

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: A new Foro Flamenco proposal (in reply to sim999)

quote:

I don't know how you plan to do this but the forum can't live on donations only.

Drive the costs low enough and fully exploit the advertising channels for a start. Any donations would be used to pay for new software and migration up front.

p.s. IIS serves 43% of all sites on the internet. Lots of enterprises, governments and Azure users.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2017 12:52:25

sim999

Posts: 73
Joined: Aug. 18 2011

RE: A new Foro Flamenco proposal (in reply to Escribano)

All right. IIS works well for windows stack. For a website in PHP I will stay away from it however.
Microsoft has been doing great things in the web and the open source world lately (typescript etc). It's good because during 2000 - 2012 their products were completely garbage and Internet Explorer was just evil.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2017 13:25:13

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: A new Foro Flamenco proposal (in reply to sim999)

I would be fine with paying a small fee to post classified ads.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2017 13:28:07

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: A new Foro Flamenco proposal (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

I would be fine with paying a small fee to post classified ads.

It had crossed my mind, e.g. £5 for a small ad for a month. Advertising would be self-service placement, with a renewal option, against a PayPal account.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2017 13:30:33

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: A new Foro Flamenco proposal (in reply to sim999)

I left MS in 2011. We are using TypeScript/Ubuntu on Azure for our latest project. Looks good. Yes, PHP on Windows sucks.

Sadly, Postgresql is not available on Azure in England at the moment, where national health data has to be stored.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2017 13:33:43

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: A new Foro Flamenco proposal (in reply to sim999)

Simon, I was a member of a forum that closed last year due to similar circumstances. A member volunteered to set up a new site and the old site became read only.

This is the new site: http://www.kramerforumz.com/

I think it uses a generic software platform and requires little maintenance on the part of admin. You might not be able to tweak it the way you like, and you probably won't be able to migrate the old threads to it, but it's better than Facebook for users unwilling to join.

BTW: The original forum that contained an enormous amount of historical research on this brand of guitars disappeared last week.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2017 14:07:05

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: A new Foro Flamenco proposal (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pgh_flamenco

Simon, I was a member of a forum that closed last year due to similar circumstances. A member volunteered to set up a new site and the old site became read only.

This is the new site: http://www.kramerforumz.com/

I think it uses a generic software platform and requires little maintenance on the part of admin. You might not be able to tweak it the way you like, and you probably won't be able to migrate the old threads to it, but it's better than Facebook for users unwilling to join.

BTW: The original forum that contained an enormous amount of historical research on this brand of guitars disappeared last week.

Wow cool! Thanks! I sill wear my prized Kramer satin tour jacket I won from hot shots competition when I was 15.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2017 14:28:42

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: A new Foro Flamenco proposal (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

quote:

I think it uses a generic software platform and requires little maintenance on the part of admin. You might not be able to tweak it the way you like, and you probably won't be able to migrate the old threads to it, but it's better than Facebook for users unwilling to join.

Thanks, I know the software it uses. Facebook group is just to keep you informed in case the forum goes down again and cannot be rescued. I have a backup from a few days ago to rebuild any new one but we will have to migrate the data or there is really little point.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2017 14:33:12

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: A new Foro Flamenco proposal (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Wow cool! Thanks! I sill wear my prized Kramer satin tour jacket I won from hot shots competition when I was 15.

Ricardo, thousands of people worked on identifying various makes and models - including transitional features of the instruments as they evolved during the 80's and early 90's. These people included former Kramer employees, countless people who bought these guitars new and could vouch for their authenticity, and former endorsees - as well as the son of one of the owners of the company.

Like I said the forum and threads that included all of that information disappeared last week. Hopefully it will turn up again. The forum I posted is only one year old, but some of the same people are still there. Vintage Kramer was a sister site and a lot of that information was organized and posted in an abbreviated form: http://www.vintagekramer.com/

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2017 15:04:32

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: A new Foro Flamenco proposal (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

I have a backup from a few days ago to rebuild any new one but we will have to migrate the data or there is really little point.

Seems like an all-or-nothing approach to the problem, Simon. People could always link to a read-only version of the old Foro to re-vive an old thread. I guess I'm not that picky when it comes to this sort of thing.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2017 15:10:20

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: A new Foro Flamenco proposal (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

quote:

People could always link to a read-only version of the old Foro to re-vive an old thread

Don't you end up having to host two sites instead of one if you do that? Which I assume would not really help the goal of reducing costs?

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2017 15:20:36

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: A new Foro Flamenco proposal (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

Don't you end up having to host two sites instead of one if you do that? Which I assume would not really help the goal of reducing costs?

Correct, it's better to build and integrate a new one than keep the old one for reference.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2017 15:30:17

eccullen

Posts: 97
Joined: Aug. 14 2007

RE: A new Foro Flamenco proposal (in reply to Escribano)

I'm very glad that continuing the forum in some form is being considered.
I check it nearly daily, and treasure it.
Its a bit of an oasis.
And I'll gladly participate financially with whatever model makes it viable...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2017 15:58:27