RE: David Serva and Bill Burgess playing solo

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mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: David Serva and Bill Burgess pla... (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

If somebody (estebanana?) can get a title for this I will edit the video title to reflect the composition name.

It's the same track as on the audio CD. On the box it is listed as "El Huérfano (Rondeña)"

has it been released before?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 27 2017 13:38:24

estebanana

Posts: 9354
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: David Serva and Bill Burgess pla... (in reply to mark indigo)

I don't have the CD jacket anymore....it's on an external drive without notes. Bill knows the piece and plays it. I'll email him soon an ask what he knows. I could be wrong, but I think the CD may say Rondena, but as I understood, David really did not consider it a 'palo' but the CD might say Rondena just to keep it flamenco. I can ask some other sources who would know, but I won't have time to call them for a few days. I've also heard him play his version of regular Rondena in D tuning.

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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 27 2017 15:57:06

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: David Serva and Bill Burgess pla... (in reply to estebanana)

I always wondered how the D# and C# phy keys came about, but I always assumed it's was about accompaniment at a Huerta without a capo and evolved from that.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 28 2017 1:20:05

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: David Serva and Bill Burgess pla... (in reply to JasonM)

quote:

I always wondered how the D# and C# phy keys came about, but I always assumed it's was about accompaniment at a Huerta without a capo and evolved from that.

Manolo Sanlucar recorded "Granainas" in C# Phrygian on "Mundo Y Formas de la Guitarra Flamenca Vol.2" (1973) titled "Brindis Para Alberto Velez"

That's the earliest recording I know of, but Alberto Velez composed a toque libre piece called "Capricho (Rondeña)" in C# standard tuning [i.e.. NOT Rondeña tuning].

This is according to his student Javier Gómez Garzón, who recorded it for the CD accompanying the book of Alberto Vélez transcriptions called "Alberto Vélez - Memoria de la Guitarra Flamenca"

I think I already uploaded it somewhere on the foro when this came up before.

Here: http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=246698&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

EDIT: Not sure when this vid was recorded, but this is the same C# solo from "Mundo Y Formas 2" ('73):

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 28 2017 13:29:35

estebanana

Posts: 9354
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: David Serva and Bill Burgess pla... (in reply to mark indigo)

I have a hunch that the bringing in of C#, E flat and was a 'simultaneous development' by several guitarists. It was a thing in the air at the time among the forward thinking players.

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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 29 2017 10:00:29

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: David Serva and Bill Burgess pla... (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

I have a hunch that the bringing in of C#, E flat and was a 'simultaneous development' by several guitarists. It was a thing in the air at the time among the forward thinking players.

curiously both Manolo Sanlucar (C#) and David Serva (Eb/D#) notably accompanied Manuel Agujetas....

co-incidence?

or conspiracy?

you decide!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 29 2017 12:49:11

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: David Serva and Bill Burgess pla... (in reply to mark indigo)

Following links to the old discussion I realize I failed to weigh in on the recording of the Student of Velez that you uploaded. The ending of the sections 1 and 3 that you uploaded are both remates for the cante por Granaina... the only thing Rondeña about the performance is the KEY it is in.

If I were to talk about this thing historically, based on the evidence, I would say all the standard tuning flamenco keys were established and codified by Montoya and his peers, until Velez introduced C#phyrigian as an alternative to normal Granaina, and Serva introduced D# phrygian as an alternative to Montoyas special tuned Rondeña. Both new keys were not fully embraced until the mid to late 80's were they were used as alternatives for many different forms including Solea Siguiriyas bulerias Tientos and Tangos.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 29 2017 21:07:53

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: David Serva and Bill Burgess pla... (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

The ending of the sections 1 and 3 that you uploaded are both remates for the cante por Granaina... the only thing Rondeña about the performance is the KEY it is in.

sure, I just passed on the info on the disc/book - it's a guitar solo composition so i guess he can (or did) call it whatever he wanted.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2017 11:41:20

arielestulin

Posts: 15
Joined: Oct. 21 2009

RE: David Serva and Bill Burgess pla... (in reply to mark indigo)

I have a recording of the 'In E' from the early 80sand the 90s. The 90s recording was from his 1st solo concert in Toronto. The 2nd concert is what became the 'Son Gitano in America' album. I studies with him for years in the early 90s. He may not have the fastest technique but there are not many who know the art form better than him.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2018 17:41:51