Technique question: ALZAPUA

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davidj

Posts: 46
Joined: Aug. 16 2004

Technique question: ALZAPUA

Hi All,
Please can anyone advise me about Alzapua technique. I'm not finding this at all easy.

I'm not clear about how much wrist action and how much thumb movement is involved in alzapua, as I was told that most of the action should be in the wrist, but, watching Gerhard Graf-Martinez dvd, he does not appear to move the wrist at all and all his movement is coming from his thumb.

Is there more than one approach to this ?

Does anyone know a good resource for learning the alzapua technique ?

many thanks
davidj

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2006 21:12:03

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Technique question: ALZAPUA (in reply to davidj)

David,
there are lots of different approaches. In my opinion, there is nothing to gain from copying one person exclusively. Probably the best way is just to practice it very slow, maybe one stroke every beat at 80 bpm, and sharp and stacatto. Eventually you will find that you can do the technique.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2006 21:40:17

Ryan002

Posts: 173
Joined: Oct. 18 2005
From: Singapore

RE: Technique question: ALZAPUA (in reply to davidj)

When Oscar Herrero was visiting he mentioned that thumb movement should be minimal, and that most of the action should come from the wrist. This is the method I normally use but it does not seem better or worse than many other guiartists who have different ways.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2006 4:22:15

Ricardo

Posts: 14865
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Technique question: ALZAPUA (in reply to davidj)

Nunez does very clear demos of the movement in his vid, and has some good excercises for it too. He says it is all in the wrist, but if you watch, there are times when only the thumb moves, and even times the entire arm moves. It depends on the music.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2006 5:39:05

davidj

Posts: 46
Joined: Aug. 16 2004

RE: Technique question: ALZAPUA (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Many thanks, Miguel.
Yes, I agree with you about 'copying one person exclusively', though I was using him as an example, as I had been shown differently.

In trying to learn the technique, I have experienced a sort of uncomfortable pain in the thumb joint area that connects to the hand, so I don't try practicing the technique for very long. (I usually start with some warm up exercises with rasgueos, picado and alzapua). Perhaps this discomfort is 'normal'?

thanks again,
Davidj

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2006 22:14:47

davidj

Posts: 46
Joined: Aug. 16 2004

RE: Technique question: ALZAPUA (in reply to Ryan002)

Thanks Ryan,

I will have a look at Oscar Herrero, but haven't got any of his material at present.
Do you or have you had any pain or discomfort in the main thumb joint when learning or practicing this technique ?

thanks
Davidj

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2006 22:17:11

davidj

Posts: 46
Joined: Aug. 16 2004

RE: Technique question: ALZAPUA (in reply to Ricardo)

Thanks Ricardo,

I will check out this Nunez video, it sounds very interesting.
I suspect you are right about the alzapua varying depending upon the usage in a piece or pieces. So often the technique is done so fast, its difficult to see exactly what is taking place!

Do you ever or have you ever experienced any pain or discomfort in learning or practicing this technique ?

many thanks
Davidj

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2006 22:21:13

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Technique question: ALZAPUA (in reply to davidj)

Hi David and welcome.

I think everybody found alzapua hard to learn. Pain should never be.

Discomfort? I dont know, and besides it is very subjective dont you think? Alzapua may feel to you uncomfortable, but only because you havent made it enough times I think. Everything feels a bit weird at beginning.

Patience is the key, and regularly practising. I am still learning it. Just give it a little time, then it'll come alone.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2006 22:26:21

Ricardo

Posts: 14865
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Technique question: ALZAPUA (in reply to XXX)

quote:

In trying to learn the technique, I have experienced a sort of uncomfortable pain in the thumb joint area that connects to the hand

Ok, in your case, I say stop doing it with the thumb joint. Keep the thumb joint stiff and move from the wrist. Watch in the mirror and make sure you are doing this. You don't want anypain like that. Get the nunez vid when ever you can to see it done the correct way. The only pain you should experience from hours of pratice is your finger tip calouses, right and left hands, and even that should be very little.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2006 23:07:34

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Technique question: ALZAPUA (in reply to davidj)

That's funny, Ricardo, Tino told me to keep the thumb as relaxed as possible, and just use the wrist. I relaxed my thumb as much I could, and he said, "mine is still more relaxed than yours."

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2006 1:12:17

Ryan002

Posts: 173
Joined: Oct. 18 2005
From: Singapore

RE: Technique question: ALZAPUA (in reply to davidj)

It does feel odd, but I have never experienced any actual pain or stiffness from this technique.

One thing I learned was that it's impossible for me to do it properly when my thumbnail is too short.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2006 11:16:57

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Technique question: ALZAPUA (in reply to Ryan002)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryan002
One thing I learned was that it's impossible for me to do it properly when my thumbnail is too short.

LOL I can only do it with short thumbnail. Also ras. abanico is easier that way. I guess everybody has to find out their own technique.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2006 12:18:27

seanm

Posts: 169
Joined: Apr. 5 2005
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: Technique question: ALZAPUA (in reply to davidj)

I've noticed several players combine both a movement form the large thumb joint and a turn of the wrist (and even less wrist when combining with a golpe). I think this gives you a little more speed through the thumb down and up stokes because the wrist doesn't have to turn as far and you are getting the speed of the wrist added to the speed of the thumb joint movement.

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2006 14:12:09

davidj

Posts: 46
Joined: Aug. 16 2004

RE: Technique question: ALZAPUA (in reply to Ricardo)

Hi Ricardo,

Hope all is well with you.
Please can you tell me the title and details of the Gerardo Nunez video/dvd, so that I can order it ?
Is it ordered from flamenco world ?
many thanks
davidj

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2006 20:03:32