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RH Technique | Focal Dystonia | Slow Motion Videos | More
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Piwin
Posts: 3565
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
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RE: RH Technique | Focal Dystonia | ... (in reply to guitbox)
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Welcome to the foro. I think you'll find these issues have also been discussed at length over here. Use the search function and you'll find plenty of threads on it (not to dissuade anyone from joining your other discussion, just pointing out that there are plenty of things already available). I read through the last few pages of your thread and the most pertinent comment IMHO was this: "Over-intellectualizing these matters doesn't seem to help in their performance. Perhaps because what we see in the videos is the result of a different intention than what occurs when one mimics those videos." And I would add that that "intention" is just focus on the quality of sound. Sure it's an interesting discussion to see what is actually happening when someone plays, but if the purpose is to learn how to do it yourself, then the focus should be sound, not what the joints are doing. I mean, if it sounds right, you're not gonna change techniques because someone tells you that it looks like you're using this or that joint too much. So then you experiment. Oh I got the right sound by focusing on the middle joint, then great, focus on that. What your fingers are actually doing is almost irrelevant. Hell, if focusing on your left butt cheek helps you get the right sound, then focus on that. Anyways, my 2 cents. edit: that was just a general comment on RH technique. If you have to factor in focal dystonia, then sure there are other things to consider.
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Date Apr. 24 2017 18:47:02
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Ricardo
Posts: 14897
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: RH Technique | Focal Dystonia | ... (in reply to guitbox)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: guitbox Some will find it useful and others will not and then post endlessly about how it's a waste of time. I know, I've heard it all, it doesn't matter to me because if it helps someone else who was taught to play with the main knuckle joint (MCP) as the main thrust from going down the wrong path and possibly damaging their hand, it's worth it. Thanks estebanana for the FD suggestion, I will look for that thread. I don't spend too much time with the FD forum crowd. Dystonia has become a new way for snake oil salesman to make a lot of money. If you don't believe me, just go to youtube and plug in dystonia and watch all the cures people are selling. The same is true of musicians dystonia, there's a lot of money to be made preying on people's desperation. I don't claim my thread or analysis will cure anyone else, but it can't hurt, and reading is totally free. Of course you have to practice a lot, duh. I glanced over your link, which I feel was off topic to focal dystonia. But in regards to your claim based on the eveidence you are seeing in the slow video, let me say that you are correct in certain observations (collapsing tip joint, Ruben Diaz got it wrong etc Lol), but once again falling into the trap of the MIDDLE KNUCKLES role in driving the stroke is an old arguement and you are simply not correct about it. But there are other threads on that topic.
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Date Apr. 25 2017 17:50:04
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guitbox
Posts: 31
Joined: Apr. 24 2017
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RE: RH Technique | Focal Dystonia | ... (in reply to Ricardo)
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I never said the middle knuckle (proximal interphalangeal joint or PIP) was "driving the stroke", I'm sorry, but you are misinterpreting what I said. I said the middle joint is responsible for releasing the string and depending on whether we're talking about a free stroke or a rest stroke, the amount of tip joint collapse has an affect on the amount of tip joint flexion that occurs as well. The tip, once fully collapsed, can also add to the release of the string in the form of flexion. Of course the power of the main knuckle joint (metacarpo phalangeal joint or MCP) is hugely important. It's important in classical guitar, but clearly we can see flamenco players use it to a large extent in picado. But that pre-pluck force (no matter how strong it is) is not the thing that releases the string. If you put up a waveform visual representation of the sound of notes being plucked and synced it with video, the largest amplitude on the waveform would be exactly in line with the middle/tip flexion and the large knuckle is changing directions at that moment. For arpeggio playing the middle joint is even more active and the plucking from the MCP actually has a component of pulling upward (MCP is extending during the release) I've encounter many concert guitarists who say they play one way with the fingers and the video evidence shows they don't really know what their fingers are doing exactly. They feel the knuckle joint as pushing through the string at the moment the string is sounded, but what I believe they are really feeling is the knuckle relaxing. It may be different for some flamenco players who play a really hard rest stroke, but not all. Look, we can continue this alpha male, crap flinging stuff if you want. You can tell me I'm wrong and off topic and tell me how this has already been talked about, and I can give you a rebuttal to your argument, but why not try another collaborative approach to this argument? I've watched your videos and you are an amazing flamenco guitarist, I have huge respect for your abilities. I'm interested in flamenco, but I'm more of a classical guitarist and I am recovering from dystonia so my playing is not consistent and not of the quality to be worth posting videos. Since a picture paints a thousand words, then a video must paint 10,000 words, why not post a closeup video of your hand so we can see for ourselves and slow it down and analyze what the joints are doing in slow motion? If you could post a short clip from just a foot away that is of the side of the hand and demonstrate picado, arpeggios, alternation free strokes, tremolo., I'm sure this would spark some very interesting conversation and help a lot of struggling guitarists. If, for some reason what we see in the video is different than what you say you are doing, then you'll be able to directly explain why seeing is not believing. What do you say Ricardo, would you be willing to help out this discussion and post a video like this?
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Apr. 26 2017 13:42:44
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