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Hello technique experts! When doing p-i-m-a or p-i-m-a-m-i arpeggios one should plant the fingers after p plucks or plant them while p plucks? I think its better to plant ima while p plucks so you get those two movements together, but it feels a bit weird on the d-string. Hope you understand what i mean. Thanks in advance.
Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: planting ima while p plucks? (in reply to athrane77)
quote:
ORIGINAL: athrane77
Hello technique experts! When doing p-i-m-a or p-i-m-a-m-i arpeggios one should plant the fingers after p plucks or plant them while p plucks? I think its better to plant ima while p plucks so you get those two movements together, but it feels a bit weird on the d-string. Hope you understand what i mean. Thanks in advance.
Planting all at once before or when the P plays is called a "FULL PLANT". Placing only i down when P plays, m down when i plays, a down when m plays etc, is called SEQUENTIAL PLANTING. It is most typical in flamenco guitar traditions to use full plant for pima sequences, and sequential plants for ami or any other combo really. Probably classical guitar as well. However, there is an argument that doing this is a crutch of sorts, not unlike dragging a finger across strings during picado, such that working on sequential planting for all and any arps is ideal. While myself and most others I have observed have always relied on the full plant for speed and fluidity, Gerardo Nuñez for one, NEVER does the full plant, or at least teaches us to not do it. A simple exercise to train sequential plant vs full plant is take a chord and do, imamimamimam etc over and over.
RE: planting ima while p plucks? (in reply to athrane77)
quote:
ORIGINAL: athrane77 thanks for your reply ricardo. My main question was if you plant before or when p plays for p-i-m-a arpeggios. Looking forward to your reply.
Looks like he answerred the question pretty straight on and added cherries on top too. Read through again, it's all there.
RE: planting ima while p plucks? (in reply to Dudnote)
I think OP was asking about two versions of full planting rather than anything to do with sequential planting; i.e. whether full planting of ima is to be done before or during plucking with p. I don't think Ricardo addressed that.
Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA
RE: planting ima while p plucks? (in reply to athrane77)
My teacher is always on me about this planting, believe me it works.
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RE: planting ima while p plucks? (in reply to athrane77)
In my case: before. But then again, I don't use plants much. Or if I do I'm unaware of it. When I do consciously plant my fingers, it's just for the technical exercise. It does wonders to improve economy of movement in ima fingers. For me it's kind of lot staccato for picado. You practice it a lot and it has a huge effect on how you play but you don't really think "staccato" when you're actually playing.
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RE: planting ima while p plucks? (in reply to athrane77)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo Planting all at once before or when the P plays is called a "FULL PLANT".
OK, what he didn't spell out is that if you plant after then that introduces a delay, and delays will slow you down. So the only way to go faster is to make the delay as short as possible - which in the limit means planting before or at the same time as playing p.
RE: planting ima while p plucks? (in reply to athrane77)
yes dudnote, but ricardo mentioned both. my question is, do you really do both (before or during p plays) or do you prefer one of these? and why? I think planting during p plays could be more efficient.
RE: planting ima while p plucks? (in reply to athrane77)
Personally, how I plant depends on context.
I do something kinda close to a full plant, a half full plant perhaps , if the ima is played in kinda one rapid ripple/wave like movement - like in solea p(E[1]-pause) imap(E[2]-pause) imap(F[3]) etc where the imap is rapid. Here I think I do plant a later than i and m, but definetly plant before m had played.
But if I switch to a more even rhythm, then I switch to sequential planting and plant each finger as its predecessor plays a note.
I also plant a finger before p plays if the finger will play a rest stroke. Then I plant the finger and p at the same time.
RE: planting ima while p plucks? (in reply to athrane77)
quote:
ORIGINAL: athrane77
quote:
full planting of ima is to be done before or during plucking with p.
yes thanks, that was my question. And what you think what is better.
As for me, I don't know if I ever do full planting unless it is functionally required - meaning when I have to sound ima simultaneously. Whether full or sequential, in my case I would say any i/m/a planting happens during p's plucking, not before.
Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: planting ima while p plucks? (in reply to athrane77)
quote:
ORIGINAL: athrane77
yes dudnote, but ricardo mentioned both. my question is, do you really do both (before or during p plays) or do you prefer one of these? and why? I think planting during p plays could be more efficient.
It might depend on the specific passage, but honestly doing sequential planting makes this a moot issue. That's why I discussed it. Before or SAME TIME AS Pulger plays is not really making much difference. Even AFTER P plays can be fine depending on the speed and timing of the specific passage, previous notes ringing etc. There need not be a general rule or practice to this, in practice you will discover exceptions and different ways things need to be done.
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, if the ima is played in kinda one rapid ripple/wave like movement - like in solea p(E[1]-pause) imap(E[2]-pause) imap(F[3]) etc where the imap is rapid. Here I think I do plant a later than i and m, but definetly plant before m had played. 
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