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peter18337
Posts: 4
Joined: Jun. 8 2016
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Hello
My name is Peter and I live in the United States. I've been playing flamenco for several years now and I am increasingly feeling like a pilgrim wandering in the desert looking for water---the water in this case being someone to musically share things with. To further mix metaphors, I don't fantasize about an oasis replete with singers and dancers basking in the shade from the noonday sun, but rather just another lonely traveler like myself to enjoy the music with. What certainly doesn't help is living where I do which is Tennessee. I'm sure some of you are thinking, 'Well, that explains it' and though most of you are correct in coming to that conclusion, I've only been here for four months but, before that, I lived most of my life in the north east where things were not a hell of a lot better (except for several years back in the late 60's and 70's).
Well, be all of that as it may, I've discovered this site where I assume I'm among friends or at least, with whom, I speak the same language.
I'm of the old school when it comes to musical taste; that is, I'm not a big fan of what's called the "new" flamenco as personified by Paco de Lucia et al. Now don't misunderstand me: I admire and envy the technical skill of these performers today(and God knows that Paco de Lucia was the best) and a lot of the music that they make is beautiful and passionate. But, for me, it's just not flamenco. The sounds are beautiful but it's just not the traditional flamenco I love and was weaned on. I don't make any apologies for the way that I feel, I just do.
Let me leave it there for the time being because I feel that I'm being a bit verbose. I look forward to partaking of the conversations and I hope I have some things to offer
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Date Jun. 8 2016 20:12:58
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peter18337
Posts: 4
Joined: Jun. 8 2016
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RE: New Member (in reply to peter18337)
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Thank you Mr. founder for the welcome and indeed, thank all of you who responded to my introductory remarks such as they were. I don't, in any way, wish to be abrasive in my comments about old and new. It's simply a personal preference and that's the long and the short of it. I admire PdL enormously. I have and listen to all of his stuff, have been to one or two of his concerts, and am always catching him on YouTube but my heart and soul lies in the traditional old school sounds of Sabicas, Escudero, Melchor de Marchena, Ricardo, Pena et al. We all know that de Lucia started out that way to but at some point he came to his own personal fork in the road and took it, obviously deciding that listening to the sound of his own drum was more compelling than what had gone on before. I don't think even he knew what the world wide impact of that would be nor that he would become the icon that he did. That's all great and God bless him for it--he deserved it.
My ears absorbed these sounds as much as anyone but..........there was something missing for me. The sounds of the traditional falsetas which defined for me the feeling of what flamenco was were missing: the moans and wails of seguirias, the beautiful strains of granadinas, the sorrow of peteneras, the joy of alegrias, the bell tones of rondena, the toe and heel of farruca.........I don't know..you can call me sentimental and maybe I am but I just don't get this from the new stuff.
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Date Jun. 9 2016 19:13:08
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Piwin
Posts: 3565
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
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RE: New Member (in reply to peter18337)
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quote:
I don't think even he knew what the world wide impact of that would be nor that he would become the icon that he did.
I wonder how important Pdl's contribution really was in how flamenco changed in the second half of the twentieth century. And before anyone cries out that I need to be stoned for saying that (who said that? -said what? -Jehovah -sound of rocks being thrown) let me explain: Pdl clearly covered a huge amount of ground in his own musical journey, much more than most and he deservedly became an icon for it. And he ventured into new territory probably a good decade before the rest. However, I feel that singling him out as the sole cause for these changes, as some do, may be overdoing it. If I remember correctly, it was Antonio Canales who, when asked why modern flamenco music was so different than traditional flamenco, said that the music was different simply because the people making the music were different. I.e. the way people live and what we are concerned with have dramatically changed. Singing about working in the mines must have been quite a different experience for people actually working in the mines. And I suppose it is to be expected that a current joven flamenco hooked on facebook, Instagram and other snapchatsamajig will not express the same things as somehow who grew up in late-19th-century Spain. I guess I'm just wondering whether flamenco would really sound all that different than it does now, if, say, Paco had chosen a career in business instead of music or if, say, the fascists who assaulted him in plain daylight in the middle of Madrid had beaten him up to the point where he would have had to quit music. This really isn't meant to disparage him or his music. He's the reason I got into flamenco in the first place. I just wonder if the so-called evolution of flamenco wasn't driven by larger societal forces than just by the achievements, albeit great achievements, of just one man.
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Date Jun. 10 2016 17:51:01
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payaso
Posts: 85
Joined: Dec. 7 2014
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RE: New Member (in reply to Piwin)
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Societal changes must be very relevant, certainly, but there are probably other factors at work as well. These stem from the fact that evolution in the arts is not a linear process, moving in different directions rather than s straight line from old to new.
At least one can see that in other arts, where an initial enthusiasm to tear up the rule book (think Schoenberg and Boulez in ‘classical’ music or the many ‘isms’ of the plastic arts such as cubism, abstract expressionism, minimalism, counceptualism) and a need to claim greater sophistication and modernity can be followed by an enlightened recognition of the values of many approaches – in classical music, for example, a recognition of the value of comprehensibility and melody, in painting a renewed appreciation of figurative styles.
At the most recent flamenco show I attended a month ago, my young companions, who had been enthusiastic about flamenco, exclaimed “At last a recognizable melody” when the guitarist moved away from showily discordant twiddles to a solo Rondeña which had a lucid passage derived from Ramon Montoya.
I believe progress can revisit and incorporate the past in new and varied ways.
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Date Jun. 10 2016 18:45:42
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