Questions about Picado technique

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>General >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

Cervantes

Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

Questions about Picado technique

My Picado is slowly coming along but have a long way to go.
My teacher tells me to play the notes very staccato by playing i finger and then stopping the note with the m finger and then alternate playing the m finger and stopping with i finger. I can do this playing very slow and get a very short staccato note. But when I try to increase speed the staccato goes away and notes run together. How can I increase speed while keeping a good staccato? Is there a speed at which the space between notes disappears? When I listen to good Picado like PDL and this Javier Conde video it seems there is a space even at very high speeds:

_____________________________

Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 29 2016 17:42:28

DavRom

Posts: 310
Joined: Jul. 16 2015
From: De camino a Sevilla

RE: Questions about Picado technique (in reply to Cervantes)

Practicing one string at a time, your speed will increase by simply practicing the cut off. After playing a note cut it off as quickly as possible with the alternate finger. You're starting tempo is not so important, it's how quickly you cut off each note that will help you increase your speed

Cutting off a note gets that finger in position to play the next note, so the faster you cut off a note the faster you can play the next note

String crossing seems to fall in place a lot quicker after focusing on the motion

I hope that makes sense

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 29 2016 17:58:16

Cervantes

Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: Questions about Picado technique (in reply to DavRom)

I get that cutting off the note helps speed.
But the problem I have is maintaining the cut off as the speed increases, which I think is needed for it to sound good.

_____________________________

Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 29 2016 18:18:31

DavRom

Posts: 310
Joined: Jul. 16 2015
From: De camino a Sevilla

RE: Questions about Picado technique (in reply to Cervantes)

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "maintaining the cut off"

Certainly as you increase tempo the notes Will have less space between them and thereby seem less staccato

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 29 2016 18:35:59

Cervantes

Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: Questions about Picado technique (in reply to DavRom)

What I mean is you could play alternating i and m very fast with no cut off. Only your nails would be hitting the strings with each finger starting a note but not cutting off the previous one, if that makes sense?

_____________________________

Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 29 2016 18:39:47

Piwin

Posts: 3562
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Questions about Picado technique (in reply to Cervantes)

The way I see it, the staccato exercices are meant to force you to minimize movement in the right-hand fingers and that's about it. I don't think picado is meant to be played stacato. Basically, if you can play staccato at 80bpm, chances are you will be comfortable playing the same picado without staccato at say 110 bpm (don't trust these figures, I'd have to check on a metronome what works for me but you get the point). So of course it's good practice to speed up the staccato, but the idea is just to minimize finger movement so that you're comfortable playing "normaly" at higher speeds. That being said, I have to admit that picado is not my strong suit so maybe I should let the experts talk

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 29 2016 18:47:34

jg7238

Posts: 2869
Joined: May 11 2009

RE: Questions about Picado technique (in reply to Cervantes)

Here is my half axed version of this one...

Just focus on the energy from within and you will see some results... I also use the i finger then stopping with m method when I warm up. I believe it also has to do with the left hand. Both hands have to be in synch to get best results.Try and lift(or release a tiny bit) the lh fingers slightly when doing picado. ..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 29 2016 21:54:09

Cervantes

Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: Questions about Picado technique (in reply to jg7238)

jg,

Good job playing that. I do notice it helps to press down with LH fingers only when playing the note and lift up otherwise. I like your phrase "focus on the energy from within" I am focusing more on what my fingers are doing but maybe that will help.

_____________________________

Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 29 2016 22:08:40

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Questions about Picado technique (in reply to Cervantes)

quote:

I do notice it helps to press down with LH fingers only when playing the note and lift up otherwise.

What would be the alternative to that? Not trying to be sarcastic, it's a genuine question.

_____________________________

"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 29 2016 22:53:10

Cervantes

Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: Questions about Picado technique (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Playing chromatically going up it is entirely possible to leave each finger down after the note is played and then going back down lifting them one at a time which is totally wrong for both directions.

_____________________________

Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 29 2016 23:08:27

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Questions about Picado technique (in reply to Cervantes)

Most real picado masters recommend practicing the staccato technique. It is like everyone says just a way to practice, they don't really expect you to staccato at 200bpm it's just good form.
My picado is terrible I'm realizing......prolly time for me to start practicing.

_____________________________

\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 29 2016 23:12:39

jg7238

Posts: 2869
Joined: May 11 2009

RE: Questions about Picado technique (in reply to Cervantes)

quote:

I do notice it helps to press down with LH fingers only when playing the note and lift up otherwise.

I hope it helps you.. It will be gratifying if it does; especially when you're surrounded by a-holes, two faced ****s, douchebags, etc both in the real and virtual world.... Ok, enough of my rant.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 30 2016 1:44:32

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: Questions about Picado technique (in reply to Cervantes)

Nice job on that exercise, Juan. Pretty tough stretch there (and looks too easy for Javier).

One advice I can give to play staccato is to think of playing and muting as one movement, not two. Both fingers move at the same time in the opposite direction.

I've been changing my picado technique for the last few of weeks so I cannot demonstrate yet.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 30 2016 1:57:36

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Questions about Picado technique (in reply to Cervantes)

quote:

Playing chromatically going up it is entirely possible to leave each finger down after the note is played and then going back down lifting them one at a time which is totally wrong for both directions.

That doesn't sound like a good practice because in reality you will never hit the note with the right hand at the same time that you "hammer on" the next note. I agree that the only way to sound good at high speed is to completely stop the note at least a moment before you polay the next.

quote:

I hope it helps you.. It will be gratifying if it does; especially when you're surrounded by a-holes, two faced ****s, douchebags, etc

Chillax

_____________________________

"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 30 2016 2:00:22

DavRom

Posts: 310
Joined: Jul. 16 2015
From: De camino a Sevilla

RE: Questions about Picado technique (in reply to Grisha)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grisha
One advice I can give to play staccato is to think of playing and muting as one movement, not two.

i like to think of it as "scissors" motion, both "blades" move simultaneously

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 30 2016 7:53:00

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Questions about Picado technique (in reply to Cervantes)

quote:

But when I try to increase speed the staccato goes away and notes run together. How can I increase speed while keeping a good staccato? Is there a speed at which the space between notes disappears? When I listen to good Picado like PDL and this Javier Conde video it seems there is a space even at very high speeds:

This is simply you discovering your speed limit. This is a good thing, though humbling to discover you have lots of work left to do, and in the end, you probably won't achieve the same speed as the two masters you named. But that is ok, you only need the speed YOU need. Hope that helps.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 30 2016 16:17:23

Cervantes

Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: Questions about Picado technique (in reply to Cervantes)

Thanks guys I think all that helps me to visualize things better.
I tried again this morning with that thinking and its clear that its going to take a while just to sink in. I think I also know why I loose the staccato when trying to play faster, my left hand can't keep up with the the right and I am so focused on synchronizing them that I loose the fast i-m-i-m transitions so the notes are as long as my speed which isn't very fast. So I think one of my goals is to make the notes shorter than my playing speed.

_____________________________

Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 30 2016 17:00:09

jg7238

Posts: 2869
Joined: May 11 2009

RE: Questions about Picado technique (in reply to Grisha)

quote:

Pretty tough stretch there (and looks too easy for Javier).

Hey thanks Grisha. That stretch is a bit tough there at the beginning (especially at fast tempo) but Javier's pinky reminds me of my teacher's pinky (Barbosa Lima)....Crazy reach.... I need to get it a tad cleaner.(the first cejilla).... He definitely makes it look easy.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 30 2016 17:15:12

Cervantes

Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: Questions about Picado technique (in reply to jg7238)

Juan,

Is this your teacher:

That is a crazy pinkie like its on a hinge, how do they they do it?
Maybe its genetic?
So many great guitarists in Brazil.

_____________________________

Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 30 2016 18:04:29

jg7238

Posts: 2869
Joined: May 11 2009

RE: Questions about Picado technique (in reply to Cervantes)

quote:

So many great guitarists in Brazil.

Yeah i agree... Rafael Rabello was another great player...

Yep, he was my teacher many years ago....

There is another piece by Scott Joplin he plays called "Solace". The left hand is pretty crazy.. I don't think there is a video of him playing it on youtube. He has played it for me a few times and it's an amazing arrangement.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 31 2016 2:10:32

minorthang

Posts: 222
Joined: Dec. 25 2014

RE: Questions about Picado technique (in reply to Cervantes)

carlos barbossa lima playing gerswin is crazy wish i can track down arrangements of those

also really enjoy his scarlatti record---rabello also love his playing he really floors it .

everyone should listen to those guys - regarding picado many great videos on you tube especially from some recent day classical guitarists

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 31 2016 8:49:01

Cervantes

Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: Questions about Picado technique (in reply to Cervantes)

Another great Brazilian finger stretcher, the late Paulinho Nogueira

_____________________________

Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 31 2016 15:03:39