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Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston
luthier 20 vs luthier 30
i was wondering if anyone has used luthier 30 strings. if so, is the tension across the strings greater or is it just the usual same old situation of the trebles being the same tension and harder tension bass strings and being packaged as higher tension? i am playing a 640mm scale these days--quite comfortable for my hands that did not complain with a 655mm scale--and the only real difference i can feel is the tension is slightly lower than a 655mm (to be expected). unfortunately luthier does not indicate their tensions with numbers so it is the old guessing game.
and to throw another luthier product--anyone tried the luthier white or black trebles? they are listed as medium-hard which would work if the luthier 30 set are luthier 20 trebles and harder tension basses.
I tried the 30's and find them be a bit dull in the trebles and a bit louder in the basses than the 20's. For me they are more difficult to play than the 20's due to increased tension. The 20's are much better in my opinion for flamenco sound, too.
orsonw and tele--thanks for the input on the luither strings. i will have to give the 30s a try. sean--i was thinking about using the hannabach superlow tension strings as they are across the board slightly higher in tension than the medium la bella 2001 strings i am cuirrently using--probably the difference between the two brands is what the 2001 would feel like on a 650-655mm.
The 20's are much better in my opinion for flamenco sound, too.
I received my [old] Francisco Navarro, and I am pleased to report it sounds and feels as great as I remember. Today, I replaced the D'addario strings it had on, with my usual Luthier 20. I am at home... as comfortable as my oldest pair of blue jeans.
I love these strings. Trebles are so sweet and lyrical and bass flexible and yet rich. The set is well balanced and consistent, and I find its intonation proves impeccable.
I have -as many of you here- tried nearly every string that Strings By Mail suplies, and wasted more money I should prudently allow myself to do. But if anything, my expensive experiments in the endless search for the perfect strings, have confirmed my loyalty to Luthier Popular Supreme n. 20.
Luthier strings always gave good value but of course one always wants more so I tried the La Bella Argento pure silver bass with Nylon 202 trebles. At $40 a set one thing I found you are not going to be compulsively changing strings and I will ride with these until they fall off. Are they worth it? The basses are certainly good and quiet as to finger noise and I really can't say if they are worth the money. Maybe I could melt them down and sell the residue but the price of silver is on the down swing despite a communiqué from a precious metal dealer in Austin prophesying a big upswing due to reduced mining. But I love the trebles, the nylon 202, which I found to be very musical. I would skip the red/black/white nylon as I have never been pleased with them.
Aggg...silver down to 24+. And I bought at 30. Well i bought them for barter if things really go to ****.
RE: luthier 20 vs luthier 30 (in reply to gj Michelob)
quote:
ORIGINAL: gj Michelob
quote:
The 20's are much better in my opinion for flamenco sound, too.
I received my [old] Francisco Navarro, and I am pleased to report it sounds and feels as great as I remember. Today, I replaced the D'addario strings it had on, with my usual Luthier 20. I am at home... as comfortable as my oldest pair of blue jeans.
I love these strings. Trebles are so sweet and lyrical and bass flexible and yet rich. The set is well balanced and consistent, and I find its intonation proves impeccable.
I have -as many of you here- tried nearly every string that Strings By Mail suplies, and wasted more money I should prudently allow myself to do. But if anything, my expensive experiments in the endless search for the perfect strings, have confirmed my loyalty to Luthier Popular Supreme n. 20.
I, on the other hand have turned to savarez corum basses which seem to be slightly higher tension and they seem perfect for my guitars. Luthier 20s are great but just a bit too low tension
I on the other hand have turned to savarez corum basses which seem to be slightly higher tension and they seem perfect for my guitars. Luthier 20s are great but just a bit too low tension
And what trebles to you match them with -or simply a Savarez set?
I suppose each guitar finds its own voice with a different set of strings. On my part, the other subjective component is that after my finger surgery, I have remained rather cautious of any 'hard' tension on my left hand. But i miss it sometimes.
RE: luthier 20 vs luthier 30 (in reply to gj Michelob)
quote:
ORIGINAL: gj Michelob
quote:
I on the other hand have turned to savarez corum basses which seem to be slightly higher tension and they seem perfect for my guitars. Luthier 20s are great but just a bit too low tension
And what trebles to you match them with -or simply a Savarez set?
I suppose each guitar finds its own voice with a different set of strings. On my part, the other subjective component is that after my finger surgery, I have remained rather cautious of any 'hard' tension on my left hand. But i miss it sometimes.
E and B trebles I like to be high tension nylon (for example hannabach classic or savarez new cristal) and G string is best with savarez alliance medium or high tension. Pretty good setup and its good that trebles dont have to be changed often.
RE: luthier 20 vs luthier 30 (in reply to gj Michelob)
quote:
ORIGINAL: gj Michelob
I have remained rather cautious of any 'hard' tension on my left hand. But i miss it sometimes.
Hey Mitch by sheer coincidence I came across a great way to help get perspective on this feeling. Pick something interesting but busy to play and play one or two bars in a loop for ages.
Start off at full performance speed but play quite quietly not stressing at all and of course have the metronome on and keep half an ear for that. Then get gradually QUIETER and see how that feels in the left hand (aim to play seamlessly, no stopping and never go back for any dropped notes ). Push it to the limit, how quietly can you play and still articulate every note clearly ? You may find that there are a few which are inaudible even if you are being accurate, get them in line with the others. Then try and get quieter again.
Ok so that is a long time and about half way so make sure it is something you love and really want to play, but busy. Next start LETTING yourself get louder and find the midway point, as you let this happen you might notice your left hand getting tied up. Dont sweat it though just keep playing and let the hand learn to play at the new dynamic as you very gradually get louder.
If things go tits up cool just go back to the start or ease off a bit but if you really let yourself do the dynamic changes really really gradually your left hand will learn how to do the minimum in terms of tension(and you will be amazed by how little that is) to balance the increasing volume of the right. You should feel strong but nimble.
Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: luthier 20 vs luthier 30 (in reply to guitarbuddha)
quote:
ORIGINAL: guitarbuddha
quote:
ORIGINAL: gj Michelob
I have remained rather cautious of any 'hard' tension on my left hand. But i miss it sometimes.
Hey Mitch by sheer coincidence I came across a great way to help get perspective on this feeling. Pick something interesting but busy to play and play one or two bars in a loop for ages.
Start off at full performance speed but play quite quietly not stressing at all and of course have the metronome on and keep half an ear for that. Then get gradually QUIETER and see how that feels in the left hand (aim to play seamlessly, no stopping and never go back for any dropped notes ). Push it to the limit, how quietly can you play and still articulate every note clearly ? You may find that there are a few which are inaudible even if you are being accurate, get them in line with the others. Then try and get quieter again.
Ok so that is a long time and about half way so make sure it is something you love and really want to play, but busy. Next start LETTING yourself get louder and find the midway point, as you let this happen you might notice your left hand getting tied up. Dont sweat it though just keep playing and let the hand learn to play at the new dynamic as you very gradually get louder.
If things go tits up cool just go back to the start or ease off a bit but if you really let yourself do the dynamic changes really really gradually your left hand will learn how to do the minimum in terms of tension(and you will be amazed by how little that is) to balance the increasing volume of the right. You should feel strong but nimble.
D.
Sorry about the off topicness guys.
Very good post. I picked up on exactly this too a while back and never found a place for mentioning it. Quiet playing and light touch but full speed ahead, very interesting. Then maintain this and increase volume with RIGHT HAND only. Not just looping sections but full pieces A-Z ill do it and rip through my performance rep. Fun and relaxing somehow.
Im reading my way through that Forum for quiet some time, since it seems to be the best place to get information about the flamencoguitar, thanks for all the great topics i appreciate it a lot.
I grew up playing with nylon string guitars like everyone in my family, playing folk music pop and stuff like that, but started to learn flamenco guitar with graf martinez and other books about a decade ago. I didnt really think much about different strings and guitars, just used a cedartop classical guitar with blue Augustine strings, not a bad one though, but the opposite of what actually would sound flamenco.
about 2 years ago the flamencofever hit me hard again, and i started to read a lot about guitar luthiers and everything, a lot in that forum too and decided to finally get myself a flamenco guitar. I tryed a lot of guitars in stores around where i live, even though most of them dont sell flamenco guitars but classical guitars only. I always used to play with cedar tops somehow out of family tradition, and was very delighted by the clear and brilliant sound of a spruce.
After months of reading i went for a Camps Primera Negra that i thought to be the best for me considering my limited purse as a student and Quality/Price ratio.
It came with Luthier 20 strings. And after getting used to the slightly narrower fretboard i fell in love with that sound and the easy playabilty. Suddendly the rasgueos sounded precise and with that certain punch that i could never produce with the mellow sustainrich soft cedar top classical i used to play.
Now to the String topic. I got the guitar with Luthier 20 strings and the playability was great and easy. Of cause my next step was to find the right strings for me. I went for the Luthier 30 after a couple of months. First impression of the Lu30 was not satisfying. The trebbles sounded kind of numb and felt thicker and slippery compared to the Lu20. I didnt see much difference concerning the base strings. After a while i got used to the trebbles and maybe forgot a little bit as well how the guitar felt with the other strings. This week it happend that the D string broke and i decided to put on a set of luthier 20 again.
instantly the guitar felt better. And the trebles sounded much richer especially in the high regions. The slightly thinner strings dont seem that slippery and more comfortable to play.
I ordered now a set of daddario EJ45s pro arte so compare that strings as well. I put the laBella 820s on my cedar top but i found it didnt fit too well with tht classical guitar Ill give it a try on the Camps negra too.
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