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Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: Who is Vicente's dancer on curre... (in reply to turnermoran)
I also saw the show in SF on Friday night. I'm a huge VA fan. Loved Tierra and was hoping he'd play a lot of it, and he played several selections from it. He played really well. I was a little disappointed in a few things. He brought a bass player, who, to me was too loud and it took away from the guitar sound. He also brought a 2nd guitarist who really did almost nothing. Most of the time he didn't play, and when he did, his volume was so low, it was almost inaudible. Tomatito did the same at his show-two extra players(one his son) who did almost nothing. I'd rather he left the bass player at home and turned up the 2nd guitarist. He also, IMO, wasted the vocal talent-he was not given much to do considering his incredible skill. the dancer was good, and he received the most applause, as I suppose is typical. Have to admit, it was a little sad to see perhaps the top flamenco guitar player in the world at his own gig, in front of people who paid to see HIM, upstaged by a dancer.
Finally I felt his presentation could have been so much better, in that he has the material, he has the chops, he has the sound, but the arrangements could have been so much better. It felt more like a club gig than a concert by one of the top dogs.
A huge gulf between this show and the last two PdL shows I've seen. VA should have had a string player to cover some of those Tierra parts IMO. Having said all that I still enjoyed it very much, and the wife thought it was the best flamenco show she ever saw, which considering she's not a flamenco fan, is somewhat faint praise. The first half of the concert, compas and artistry were jumping off the stage so intensely I wanted to jump out of my seat and start screaming, but when I looked at the audience, 99% weren't moving a muscle. Weird. They did offer appreciation through their ovations, but didn't seem to feel the groove. I'm glad I went as he hasn't been here in a while. I suppose it's pretty difficult for even the best to live up to their recordings.
RE: Who is Vicente's dancer on curre... (in reply to turnermoran)
I saw the show in Boston, from the third row. Which was cool and a complete surprise. A client of mine had an extra ticket....
I have never seen Vicente Amigo before and thought it was a great show. The dancer was excellent and brought the house down here in Boston. The bass player was a little better balanced with the guitar (compared to what Mark2 probably experienced) but I totally agree the second guitarist was completely wasted, not literally, just his talent was not put to much use.
All that being said, what_really_ impressed me and made the experience even more enjoyable was to see the interaction of the musicians and how much they were really enjoying themselves. VA had a giant grin on his face quite often and was totally free with encouraging, giving props to his band. Seems like a nice guy and while that doesn't make up for the lack of great artistry, it always enhances it when both are present.
It was also nice to see him playing what I would call a "real" guitar. That Reyes sounded fantastic, or more to the point, they made each other sound fantastic.
RE: Who is Vicente's dancer on curre... (in reply to Mark2)
Mark- you saw the second show. I saw the last show. Probably almost everything was the same down to the musical selections but the vibe was at least a little better from what you described. People were more responsive.
Personally, i'd argue that use of the second guitar and bass were judicious, musical and actually well mixed. Except for the last five frets on the five string bass which when he played that low took over the room. The second guitarist who sang an octave below Rafa I thought gave a sound that was classic Vicente (from the albums) that I often hear lacking in his life performances.
But I agree –I wish I heard much more singing and last time he played San Francisco there was more singing. As well a moment where Rafa really got to let loose on really got to let loose on a buleria.
To that end, VA himself seem to have the most fun in the show last night when accompanying the dancer por buleria. My guess is it is the most intentionally spontaneous moment in the show, which should be no surprise it gets all the applause because in addition to being an insane dancer of the highest technical, chops, and physical manner of dancing, it seems genuinely creative making stark contrast to an otherwise well predetermined and very long show. I found it tiring actually.
and yes, I wish he would bring some string players or someone to play that bandaneon looking instrument. Not only does his touring band seem to do the same thing every time here but the same first 3–4 songs were the same. it's interesting to think he has ago to approach to get in the groove similar to Paco opening with the Rondena, so I can't really criticize, but at the same time something different would be nice.
Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: Who is Vicente's dancer on curre... (in reply to turnermoran)
Maybe the extra bass volume was related to my seating. It's very possible that the excessive low end(I agree it was really pronounced when he played in the low register of his instrument) was limited to some areas in the hall. I agree about the vocal sound-it was excellent. The second guitar-we just have to agree to disagree. I'd have preferred he play a more substantial role at the expense of the bass player, but I'm not much of a fan of bass in flamenco. That's my taste as opposed to any lack of ability of the bass player. I found VA's accompaniment of the dance very minimalistic. Not good or bad, but almost like he was taking a break. And to clarify, the audience was very responsive in terms of applause at the end of every tune, they just didn't move to the music. He played Roma as an encore, and at the end he put more and more reverb on the guitar as he faded out the tune and the lights faded. It was a very effective dramatic closing. I thought his music is so expressive, the presentation would have benefitted from more of those type of moments. That would have elevated the show into more of a concert feeling vs. a club style presentation. At the end of the day, I'm still a huge fan.
Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: Who is Vicente's dancer on curre... (in reply to turnermoran)
I don't think I need to point out to you of all people, that Paco toured with more musicians than VA. And when Paco brought a 2nd guitarist, he let them play. VA is the one who decided to feature those Celtic players on Tierra. So yeah, if he wanted to recreate that sound, he didn't have enough guys. I guess you saw the show based on the pic you posted. What did you think of it as compared to a typical PdL concert as below? I'm really curious as to your view.
Posts: 14818
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Who is Vicente's dancer on curre... (in reply to Mark2)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark2
I don't think I need to point out to you of all people, that Paco toured with more musicians than VA. And when Paco brought a 2nd guitarist, he let them play. VA is the one who decided to feature those Celtic players on Tierra. So yeah, if he wanted to recreate that sound, he didn't have enough guys. I guess you saw the show based on the pic you posted. What did you think of it as compared to a typical PdL concert as below? I'm really curious as to your view.
In general my opinion is it was EXACTLY as I expected. I agree Rafael could have been featured more, but honestly, the gig was the same format as he did over a decade ago. I am not saying that is a bad thing either. I admit I was a little nervous about the Celtic thing/Rodrigo y Gabriela cameo from a while back (lol!). Good thing it was the normal format. Even Roma, yeah I expected that was coming. (Eye roll)
About sound, it was a smaller hall, his guitar was super hot, but no feedback it was good. Bass player I didn't even notice him playing. Paquito keeps the beat, the others do palmas the whole time. During the dance Rafael threw him some letras, VA was truly accompanying (i.e. Grabbing tonos on the fly), but it's not a different concept than the only other two concertistas were doing (PDL and Tomatito)...except there were no worked out sections. My opinion of Vicente's music remains same as years ago...his first 2.5 albums told the whole story, at least stylistically. As per the recent vid upload, a new buleria confused for an older one is no surprise.
RE: Who is Vicente's dancer on curre... (in reply to turnermoran)
To me, Paseo de Gracia is the album that best represents his style. Sadly, I also think that many people didn't give it a chance... in other words, they didn't get past the commercial appeal and dismissed the album as a whole.
RE: Who is Vicente's dancer on curre... (in reply to turnermoran)
Regarding the audience, The bulk of the audience (at least at our shows) are not die hard flamenco fans. People come to see Vicente Amigo as a musician or they were listening to Public Radio and heard about some flamenco from Spain coming to town. During the second half of a Tomatito show when the cante started, a ton of people stood up and left. That doesn't happen at Vicente's shows though. People don't feel right to scream out or clap in the middle of a guitar piece. Just doesn't seem right in a concert hall environment, but the tension goes down when the dude stands up and starts stomping his feet ;)
Second guitar...Its so easy for a second guitar to clash or sound overly busy in solo flamenco. I think he came in when appropriate, playing cords over simple melodic sections of songs, most of the time just palmas. The bass player was meh. But I didn't pay any attention, I was too busy locked on Vicente's groove and Reyes
RE: Who is Vicente's dancer on curre... (in reply to turnermoran)
Yesterday night the show in Los Angeles...
For me it was very good because it was my first time seeing Vicente live but man, not to take away from him anything, there is no one like Paco on stage.... Everybody else seems like a student next to him!
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