"Felipe Conde" vs "Guitarras Conde Hermanos"

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wiking

Posts: 63
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

"Felipe Conde" vs "Gu...

Hi guys,

I'm in the market for a second guitar. I got my current, a Navarro peghead blanca student model, back in February of 2014. The guitar is stunning, sounds gorgeous, excellent playability, couldn't be happier.

I've been lusting after a "Medio Luna" negra guitar in red or orange for some time now, and after two years of playing I've decided that I'm ready to invest. The problem is that, I'm confused between these two makers - Felipe Conde (condehermanos.com) and Conde Hermanos (conde-hermanos.com). The Felipe medio luna models all look gorgeous, but cost an amazing amount of money (My budget is around 5-6 thousand Canadian dollars). I've followed the Guitarras Conde Hermanos on Facebook and they produce some fantastic looking guitars but I can't find any prices.

Can someone tell me if these guitars are of the same or similar calibre of the Felipe Condes? Are they even better? How much do they usually cost, new or used? I've been reading about the "Schism" of the Conde dynasty and I understand both makers are two of the three Conde brothers who worked in the original shop if I'm not mistaken, but how do they differ? I am almost incapable of finding any info on the models produced by "Guitarras Conde Hermanos" online since all my searches direct me to the Felipe Conde offerings which are too much money.

I'm basically just confused as to how these two makers compare, and what some recommendations would be if there's better guitars to be had for less money. I havn't totally discounted going for a Navarro Special Grand Concert since I'm so pleased with my Student blanca, and at $3800 USD the price is certainly agreeable.

Any input or clarification is highly appreciated, cheers!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2016 15:04:27

RobJe

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: "Felipe Conde" vs &quo... (in reply to wiking)

You will get some idea of prices by looking at flamencoguitarsforsale.net, Look in the sold section and you will find plenty of new and secondhand Condes from all eras.

conde-hermanso.net is the website of the shop at Atocha 53, originally owned by Julio Conde (d 1995) and now run by his family. They tend to put a media luna head on anything. Felipe Conde (son of Mariano senior) reserves this for his best guitars - I hear a rumour that his brother Mariano junior is also sticking media luna heads on everything.

There are plenty of professionals playing Condes from all eras and branches of the family. Their guitars have the reputation of surviving the rough and tumble of professional life and sounding good when amplified. Quality is variable so if you are spending money you need to make sure you are getting a good one. There are resellers in Spain such as Jose Luis Postigo who manage to buy up some good ones - often a better bet than visiting the makers' shops. If you are an unknown guitarist and you order a guitar online you should not expect to get the best!

I don't know anything about your or your playing but If your playing is mainly for personal pleasure in your own bedroom and for playing to/with friends you would have more fun with a hand made, more lightly built guitar. A Conde media luna can be an expensive (or not so expensive if from Atocha) and disappointing vanity project if you don't get it right.

Rob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2016 18:50:21

SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: "Felipe Conde" vs &quo... (in reply to RobJe)

quote:

There are plenty of professionals playing Condes from all eras and branches of the family. Their guitars have the reputation of surviving the rough and tumble of professional life and sounding good when amplified. Quality is variable so if you are spending money you need to make sure you are getting a good one. There are resellers in Spain such as Jose Luis Postigo who manage to buy up some good ones - often a better bet than visiting the makers' shops. If you are an unknown guitarist and you order a guitar online you should not expect to get the best! I don't know anything about your or your playing but If your playing is mainly for personal pleasure in your own bedroom and for playing to/with friends you would have more fun with a hand made, more lightly built guitar. A Conde media luna can be an expensive (or not so expensive if from Atocha) and disappointing vanity project if you don't get it right.

Outstanding advice. There are hard lessons to be taught form buying instrument - even from the house(s) of Conde.

_____________________________

Rick

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2016 19:08:05

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: "Felipe Conde" vs &quo... (in reply to wiking)

Your best bet is to be patient for a used guitar in your budget. You can find one from the 1970's that is very similar to the ones used by the old maestros. Check Danzeffguitars.com.

Interms of modern builds (1990-2010) a "Conde" could be from 1 of 3 shops. This info is on the lable. The Atocha guitars are most likely made by R. Sanchis and/sons in Valencia....so equivalent pricing should apply ($1500-3000). For your price range only look for instruments from this time period from Felipe V address. Most of the ones I have played from late 1990's to early 2000's are decent instruments, and tend to resale at their purchased price range (A models). (Keep in mind, several pros use Atocha built Condes that hold up to the Felipe V ones , even though made by Sanchis. For what it's worth).

_____________________________

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2016 19:17:30

wiking

Posts: 63
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: "Felipe Conde" vs &quo... (in reply to wiking)

A big thank you to RobJe, and others! Some good advice, especially where I'm buying sight unseen. Earlier I got a quote from Conde Hrms. of 4500 Euro for their red negra... It is quite a bit of money to gamble on a guitar I've never touched before, and it seems these are hit and miss... Perhaps I'd be better served waiting for something on the used market?

Another alternative is a Tsiorba. 5200 US dollars means it'll cost only a little more in Canadian dollars than the Conde. I'd imagine the Tsiorba is probably on a whole other level than the Conde, though... tough call but maybe I'll stop GASing and get back to playing. I'm learning Almoraima and it's coming nicely.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2016 20:20:34

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: "Felipe Conde" vs &quo... (in reply to wiking)

How about ordering a guitar made by one of the fine luthiers who are members of this Foro?

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2016 20:26:59

wiking

Posts: 63
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: "Felipe Conde" vs &quo... (in reply to BarkellWH)

I'm definitely open to consider it, since whatever I buy it's critical that it comes to me perfectly set-up and not a 'dud'. I can't very well return Conde after Conde to Spain because I don't like them, or just drop over to play a few in the shop.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2016 20:50:23

tri7/5

Posts: 570
Joined: May 5 2012

RE: "Felipe Conde" vs &quo... (in reply to wiking)

I think you're on the right path looking at Tsiorba as you will indeed get a great instrument and won't just be hoping it's a good one from overseas. Peter also gets really specific on setups if requested. Aaron Green is another name to check out. Superb consistency and amazing guitars.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2016 20:57:28

wiking

Posts: 63
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: "Felipe Conde" vs &quo... (in reply to tri7/5)

I checked out his site, looks great. No pricing that I could see though... I'm reluctant to go above $5000 USD due to the exchange rate to Canadian dollars. If any reputable luthiers make guitars in the $3500-$4000 USD range that would be ideal, but I don't know of any.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2016 21:13:05

DaveyS

Posts: 27
Joined: Oct. 6 2015

RE: "Felipe Conde" vs &quo... (in reply to wiking)

Hey wiking, What type of Conde are you after? I Was thinking about placing one of mine in the classifieds.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2016 22:10:37

DavRom

Posts: 310
Joined: Jul. 16 2015
From: De camino a Sevilla

RE: "Felipe Conde" vs &quo... (in reply to BarkellWH)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BarkellWH

How about ordering a guitar made by one of the fine luthiers who are members of this Foro?

Bill

indeed!

not only good sounding, well built, setup guitars but at relatively low prices

I've nothing against Condes, but one must admit they are priced at a premium partially due to the demand

unless your tour manager insists you have to play the part, be frugal

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2016 22:14:11

flamencositar

Posts: 76
Joined: Aug. 8 2012

RE: "Felipe Conde" vs &quo... (in reply to wiking)

Hey OP, my first guitar was a Navarro Negra.
My new (used) baby is a 73 Sobrinos. Fantastic flamenco! Mid 4 grand US, you can get in the Conde love fest.

_____________________________

Still the body, quiet the mind, free the soul

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2016 23:59:42

RobJe

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: "Felipe Conde" vs &quo... (in reply to wiking)

There are lots of ways of buying a new or second-hand guitar and I guess you have to work out the best way for you and your particular circumstances. It’s a problem solving exercise. When I started out (a very long time ago) the only way for me was to go by boat and train to Spain or take a car across the English Channel (car loaded in a big cargo net in those days) and drive to Spain. You had to hope the animal glue didn’t melt on the journey. Better travel and improved finances eventually made life a bit easier.

I have discovered that to some extent I need to adjust my playing the characteristics of a new guitar to get the best out of it. However I always look for a guitar that is good my style of playing - I am quite heavy handed so a guitar with no “headroom” just sounds snappy. Other players sometimes rave over a guitar that I would reject.

Good luck with your search. You will probably make plenty of bad decisions but make sure that you don’t waste too much money in the learning process.

Rob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2016 9:53:46

Johnc

Posts: 114
Joined: Apr. 16 2011
From: UK

RE: "Felipe Conde" vs &quo... (in reply to wiking)

you may want to check out Ethan Deutsch, a luthier on this foro based in Seattle (depending on where you are in Canada could be close to him), I think his guitars are in your price range, and would offer far better value imho,
http://www.edluthier.com/

john

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2016 10:55:57

Cervantes

Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: "Felipe Conde" vs &quo... (in reply to wiking)

I found locally a Conde blanca made at 53 Atocha Street, in 1990.
It has a few cracks that were repaired but otherwise looks in good condition.
Asking price is $2,600 maybe I could get it for closer to $2,000.
Thoughts?

_____________________________

Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2016 22:45:52

estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: "Felipe Conde" vs &quo... (in reply to BarkellWH)

quote:

How about ordering a guitar made by one of the fine luthiers who are members of this Foro?

Bill

Hear, hear. We all have one or two guitars ready to go, Anders, Me, Andy, Ethan, John, Eden....all have a guitar to sell I'm sure....give us a try. We hang out in the Lutherie section of the Foro.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 2 2016 4:53:29