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accompanying dancers on guitar
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Florian
Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia
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 RE: accompanying dancers on guitar (in reply to glenn sharp)
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hi glenn
I did this video with some remate and rythm for solea por buleria for accompaning if you are interested:
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=27747&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1
further down that thread i broke it down and did some of the remate slower.
General type of advice is hard to give without too much details from you, here some general stuff:
All 12 beat Palos generaly the Llamada starts on 1 and ends on 10
things have changed alot in the present day but generaly dancer takes a step back to give the guitarist a sign that he/she is about to do a llamada.
Sometimes you may notice that the llamada goes longher then 1 to 10 thats because they probably doing a double llamada, 2 llamadas 1 straight after the other.
if u specify what dances you intersted in we can probably be more helpfull.
Another tip for acompanying, always, always use your foot to keep time,(rely on noone else but your own foot) when you not sure whats going on, you keep playing straight compas, no matter what they do (generaly), straight compas should always work with what they do, even if its complicated offbeats.
Most important if you do stuff up go out of compas and they stop the dance and all look at you, you casualy turn and look at the other guitarist  or shake your head at the palmero, or if none of this is available just say"- Hm u changed it  "
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 12 2006 15:57:59
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Guest
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RE: accompanying dancers on guitar (in reply to glenn sharp)
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I would rather follow the compas of the dancer first, and the palmas, if they are solid, than follow my own. Many times I feel them going off from what I'm feeling and if I continue down my road willfully, it's going to go off. If you know how the steps fit into the compas, you can use that knowledge to stay with the dancer during slight tempo variations, weird cortes, etc. the dancer should be capable of laying down the compas, and also has the liberty to control tempo. Certain steps can cue an immediate increase in tempo. If I'm not getting solid compas from the dance, the palmas are the backup, because the dancer is going to want like heck to be with the palmas. It's not that I don't trust my internal clock, it's that I'm there to play for them, and if we are not in sync, it can turn into a car wreak, and it won't matter if I'm right or wrong. When it's working, you hear the compas of the dancer, with the palmas, and your guitar all together. My advice is to study the steps, just as the dancers do.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 13 2006 6:14:55
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Mark2
Posts: 1874
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
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RE: accompanying dancers on guitar (in reply to glenn sharp)
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quote:
Gues yes i agree with you, but what happens when next week you have to play for another dancer whos choreography you have never seen before ? and you dont have time to learn it ?
>Hopefully they lay it down and you jump on it.
Another thing, playing for schools, alot of the students practice and alot dont so alot improve and alot dont , will you put your faith in the hands of someone else who may or may not be improving ? theres not always a palmero or a cajon player.
>You have to follow the best ones when it's students, but at a cetain point I agree you do have to lead in this situation.
I realize in the show and whatever u stay with the dancer even if the compas is off but u cant get around it, your compas has to be developed so its spotless and steady and not relying on the dancer or palmero to keep you in, cause sometimes its only you and the dancer and sometimes she/ he s doing hard contratiempo and relying on you to keep it straight.
> I totally agree-you have to be able to lay it down too, but hopefully, you don't have to lead. I think it's a weak dancer who is depending on the guitarist to keep her in compas. Leaning on palmas or guitar during difficult steps or even occasionally letting go and relying on the other people is as far as I'd hope a dancer to go.
TO allways rely and follow someone else and not develop your own sense of compas i think its a huge mistake, and you get away with it for a litlle bit until when you list expect it it bites you in the bum :-)
> I think to be able to groove to a dancer's dynamic compas may take more compas skills than to lead. Your guitar has to dance to their tempo, not vice versa.
To follow dancers dance perfectly is ideal but dosent always work musically (in some spots the dancer will do offbeat footwork and it will only work well if you do the onbeat with the guitar, and thats what hes expecting) and its not always practical as you might not always have the luxury of time.
> What I'm saying is that ideally, they lay down the tempo, what you play is up to you. How's the weather down under?
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 13 2006 7:13:28
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Ricardo
Posts: 14844
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: accompanying dancers on guitar (in reply to glenn sharp)
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I agree with both you guys in some respect. The thing it depends on is WHO has the stronger compas. It should not be an arguement, unless of course there are 2 people on the same level, but then you won't have a problem anyway. So, honestly, the guitarist is like the drummer, so he better be AS GOOD AS the dancer tempo wise, or the show is in trouble.
True, the dancer, good or bad, can lead the tempo changes. But, that is NOT a liscense to go up and down constantly with no groove. Some dancers NEED the guitarist to hold it down until it is time for a speed up or time change. Who ever has the tigtest groove needs to hold it down. It is not about chasing down the compas, or chasing the dancer, it has to be together, and the glue will be the strongest rhythm personality.
Often times the guitar and palmas might accidentally speed up the tempo a bit in a slow piece, and the dancer has to mark behind the beat. That is bad news for the musicians. The guitarist needs to be able to ignore mediocre palmas, and tame a crazy dancer. Usually it is obvious from the first compas of whatever, WHO is going to be the person to rely on. The worst is when you have a cajonista and he is the weakest of the group.
Ricardo
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 13 2006 16:58:50
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