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RE: Foro Flamenco
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Mark2
Posts: 1877
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
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RE: Foro Flamenco (in reply to Morante)
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I think there is a disconnect for many of us who are removed from flamenco as it is in Spain. I remember when a guitarist showed up in San Jose, CA from Madrid many years ago. I started studying with him, and even though he didn't have as many years playing the guitar as I did, he was clearly better and more complete. After considering the matter, it made perfect sense-he simply had access to more experience, and had more support. I considered my experience in learning western music. I started studying when I was 16, took lessons from different players, played in many groups, played many styles. After going through blues, rock, fusion, jazz, r&B, funk, latin, and yes, even disco gigs, I had a pretty solid background. Then I started with flamenco-there was one teacher in the area then and I stayed with him for five years. Zero singers from Spain to learn from. Later I learned to play for dance but at that time there were still no singers from Spain in my area. I took lessons from other guitarists, transcribed stuff, etc. Studied recordings. Played for classes, eventually played in some local companies. None of that compared to simply being around a bunch of people who are involved in the music. It was an academic endeavor compared to a life style. Recently I started doing electric guitar gigs after maybe 25 years of not doing them. It was so easy-like putting on an old pair of slippers that still were broken in to my feet. And all the guys I used to play with, still there, still living the life. One of my friends, a lifelong professional musician told me 20 years ago that if I really wanted to do flamenco, I should pack up my wife and kids and move to Spain. I knew he was right-that was really the only way to really do it, but I wasn't willing to make that kind of sacrifice. I had to accept that, and I have. I wasn't interested in adopting another culture-I like my own too much. Morante, and others have made that move, and they have an insight and experience that goes way beyond what is available to those of us who have not. That he posts here is a benefit to us. I'm pretty sure if I was in his shoes, I'd have little use for this forum. After all the real deal is right outside his door. I'm in San Francisco, the source of Latin rock. I know most of the guys from the seminal Latin rock bands. I don't spend any time on Latin rock forums. Why would I? Here's some reality: That guitarist from Madrid gigged with some locals when he was here. I asked him what he thought of the level of flamenco here in California. He answered "Level? There is no level" He had a vid of a performance he did with some locals. He took it home and watched with his mom. He said they laughed hysterically. I could go on and relate other interactions with flamencos from Spain, as could many of us who have spent a great deal of time pursuing flamenco. Of course there are some who have the talent and experience to reach a higher level, but IMO that talent is left at least partially unrealized if those individuals don't make the move to the source. I'm inclined to give Morante some leeway, as he is one of the few contacts on the ground we have on the forum.
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Date Nov. 17 2015 17:07:34
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Morante
Posts: 2187
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
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RE: Foro Flamenco (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
This coupled by the fact cante in SPAIN even, has been achieving new lows interms of ability and interest makes mattters worse for the poor guy. Gracias Ricardo You are one of the few. The other night a cantaor, Raúl de Nerja, who was visiting Cadìz y Jeréz, arrived at my house with his pareja. I met him several years ago in La Peña Flamenca de Nerja, where I accompanied him and another socio por soléa for half an hour. Later I discovered him in the best seafood restaurant of Nerja, where he taught me how to open and clean conchas finas. I suggested going out for tapas, but he wanted to sing. I had to drag my guitar out of the wardrobe, then he sang por soleá, alegrías, tangos, fandangos y bulerías, while we drank a great manzanilla, with tapas of lomito de bellota y queso Manchego. Then off to Casa Manteca, one of the mítico bars in Cadiz for more tapas y vino. Then all off home after a fine borrachera Eso se llama flamenco. un abrazo Morante
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Date Nov. 18 2015 15:06:56
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mark indigo
Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
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RE: Foro Flamenco (in reply to Morante)
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quote:
Somebody told me that I could find flamenco here. I can´t see it. Where is it? quote:
The other night a cantaor, Raúl de Nerja, who was visiting Cadìz y Jeréz, arrived at my house with his pareja. I met him several years ago in La Peña Flamenca de Nerja, where I accompanied him and another socio por soléa for half an hour. Later I discovered him in the best seafood restaurant of Nerja, where he taught me how to open and clean conchas finas. I suggested going out for tapas, but he wanted to sing. I had to drag my guitar out of the wardrobe, then he sang por soleá, alegrías, tangos, fandangos y bulerías, while we drank a great manzanilla, with tapas of lomito de bellota y queso Manchego. Then off to Casa Manteca, one of the mítico bars in Cadiz for more tapas y vino. Then all off home after a fine borrachera Eso se llama flamenco. un abrazo Morante so..... what do you suggest? Only allow members who live in Andalucía and live flamenco like you do to post? Convince anyone outside of Andalucía to give up any interest in flamenco? Stop calling this forum "flamenco" (and if so, what do you suggest it be called)? Just give up and close the whole thing down? Come on man, it's no good just bitchin about it, this forum is for flamenco enthusiasts, fans, aficionados etc. from all over the world. Most are not living in Spain, let alone Andalucía. A lot of us would love to play for real live singers. Sure, some people are "only" interested in the guitar, but that's only because the rest of us haven't sufficiently educated them in cante appreciation yet.... I guess you are probably frustrated that no one (except Ricardo) is on your level of cante aficion. Why not post more stuff on cante for people like me who are interested, and to get more people interested? A lot of your posts just seem to be boasting about the great stuff you get to eat, drink, listen to and play, and sometimes I'm not sure what the point of that is? How about teaching people how to appreciate the things you appreciate, instead of rubbing their noses in the fact you are doing it for real and the rest of us are just wannabe's? You could try sharing your knowledge and experience, educating people in the things you appreciate?
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Date Nov. 19 2015 15:40:10
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Pimientito
Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella
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RE: Foro Flamenco (in reply to Morante)
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quote:
The other night a cantaor, Raúl de Nerja, who was visiting Cadìz y Jeréz, arrived at my house with his pareja. I met him several years ago in La Peña Flamenca de Nerja, where I accompanied him and another socio por soléa for half an hour. Later I discovered him in the best seafood restaurant of Nerja, where he taught me how to open and clean conchas finas. I suggested going out for tapas, but he wanted to sing. I had to drag my guitar out of the wardrobe, then he sang por soleá, alegrías, tangos, fandangos y bulerías, while we drank a great manzanilla, with tapas of lomito de bellota y queso Manchego. Hey...Raul is a good friend of mine. Unfortunately the Peña flamenca of Nerja doesnt exist any more but I passed many happy nights with there with Raul, Fali (who passed away) Joaquin Heredia, Angelito and the Nerja Flamencos. Occasionally guys like Chonchi Heredia, Jose Frances, El Chato de Velez and Remedios Amaya would drop in for an impromtu performance. Times like these are the "real flamenco" experiences that Morente is talking about and unfortunately you will be very lucky to see them out side of Spain unless you happen to be in the Flamenco circles of San Fran, New york, London, Berlin etc. and someone can connect you to the right juegas with visiting artists. Morente- I gotta agree with some of the opinions here. You and I are lucky to be able to see amazing flamenco more or less any week that we want to and meet these amazing personalities. This is an international forum mainly for English speakers. I have always been of the attitude that we lucky guys in Spain should be SHARING our experience for the benefit of those who cant be here rather than berating those who want to learn but dont have the opportunity. Its not everyone who can just move to Spain for their art...life is just not that simple. I consider myself to be extremely blessed to have had some of the flamenco experiences that I have in the last 15 years but i would never want to insult any forum members here who love flamenco music and love their instruments but didnt have the chance to spend time having the sorts of nights that you are talking about.
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Follow my blog http://pimientito.wordpress.com/ "Ceremonial" by Mark Shurey "Pimientito". CD and digital download vailable on Amazon and CDbaby. http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/markshurey
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Date Nov. 19 2015 18:30:54
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