Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England
RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to hvymetal1234)
Lots of people take guitars in and out of Spain everyday. Many of them are rosewood guitars. There are many types of 'rosewood' and there are various species referred to as 'Brazilian'. But how many people can correctly identify them? If anyone asks, which seems unlikely, just tell them its Indian and stick to your story.
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston
RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to hvymetal1234)
As I understand it one needs to get a "passport" (read, multi-page application and a high fee) for one's guitar if said guitar contains D. nigra. Failure to acquire said permit can result in confiscation of one's guitar. There are a boat load of horror stories of guitars, bows, orchestra instruments being grabbed by CITES "police" and an equal number of horror stories of legit instruments being grabbed by over zealous CITES "police". Once grabbed it is on the owner to prove the instrument is legit. To make matters worse, the European Union upped the ante by increasing the "legal" date from 1992 to 1947.
The upshot is, cross a border at your own risk. If you do not have a permit and the guitar is grabbed by the CITES "police" nasty things can happen, the least being the loss of your guitar.
RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to hvymetal1234)
Leave it at home, you may be able to get into Spain, but you may not be able to get it back into the US. I'm presuming you are traveling out of the US??
Most of the time you will be fine at borders, but why take a chance with a nice guitar. There have been too many bad reports lately to chance it. If you do travel with it get your papers in order AND take duplicates to travel with in case your luggage or bag gets lost.
Dealing with customs check points has become a game of chance. It is a matter of moving through a customs gate and not knowing how stringent the checks will be that day. Sometimes customs officers they go in depth and really look and other times you get waived through, but it is not possible to know what will happen. As Keith said there has been cause for concern the past year.
Think carefully on this. The bottom line is if you travel without the proper documentation for this wood you are breaking U.S. laws and some international trade treaties, and maybe the laws of the EU. If a customs official wants to press the issue the law is on their side unless you have papers for your guitar.
RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to krichards)
quote:
ORIGINAL: krichards
Lots of people take guitars in and out of Spain everyday. Many of them are rosewood guitars. There are many types of 'rosewood' and there are various species referred to as 'Brazilian'. But how many people can correctly identify them? If anyone asks, which seems unlikely, just tell them its Indian and stick to your story.
You may think there are only fools working. Especially the German customs is very focused on natural products and does know, what´s on the list. If they are not sure, they call a specialist to let him check. The times where you could have told the customs officers fairy-tales are completely over for years. If you don´t have the papers, then you can be asured the guitar will be withheld. An expensive fun. Game Over.
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston
RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to hvymetal1234)
some interesting reading about cites enforcement in spain. all it takes is one hot shot cites police or police wanna be and there goes a few thousand dollars down the toilet.
Posts: 1770
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands
RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to Ricardo)
If you call CITES in your own country, they tell you what to do and how to get. It is a lot, will need some time, but you get the right documents for the guitar.
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to tele)
quote:
One option is to put a false label with early construction year
And run the real risk of being pulled into a secondary interrogation with a customs official who knows something about guitars and wood, and who asks questions you are unable to answer with certainty. You will then not only face penalties for violating CITES, you will also be charged with forging documents to circumvent the law. Expect a hefty fine and possibly prison time if you are caught.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
Posts: 3487
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to BarkellWH)
In the 1970s I used to return from Europe via JFK Airport in New York.
On one trip I had with me two new Jose Ramirez 1a classicals I had bought for friends. i declared them, and said I would pay the customs duty. At the cashier's window, he moistened the back of a a $100 American Express Traveler's Cheque, causing the ink to smear.
"Why did you do that?" I asked.
"To tell whether it's counterfeit."
"I know, but why would I declare the guitars at full value, then pay with a counterfeit check. I could have just lied about the price and showed you a fake receipt."
"You never know what people will get up to."
The Customs inspectors at JFK generally ranged from gruff to rude. I usually bought a handful of Cuban cigars in Europe, and put them in my coat pockets to pass through Customs. Cuban cigars have been embargoed in the USA for decades. Opening my suitcase for the inspector, I was disappointed to see that I had absent-mindedly left the cigars in it.
The agent pounced on them. He held them up and asked, "What are these?"
"Cuban cigars," I replied.
He handed them to me and said, "Put 'em in your pocket, stupid."
Printable Version
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread