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Barbero for $4200E??   You are logged in as Guest
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turnermoran

Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010
 

Barbero for $4200E?? 
Can anyone vouche for this place? I'm not shopping for a Barbero, but seeing the prices on virtually everything at this place, I'm immediately suspicious. Too good to be true?

Does anyone have experience w/ this place??

http://www.guitarsforsale.es/en/product/marcelo-barbero-1946-2/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 9 2014 5:34:24
 
keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Barbero for $4200E?? (in reply to turnermoran) 
a barbero for 4200 euros--sounds too good to be true and as the adage says, if it sounds too good to be true it probably is. a barbero of that vintage most likely will sell for a whole lot more. no photo of the label or headstock suggests something funny. it the guitar sells i hope the owner of the biz puts some money into polishing up the website--not the most user friendly of sites.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 9 2014 6:27:06
 
beltri

 

Posts: 74
Joined: Sep. 28 2006
 

RE: Barbero for $4200E?? (in reply to turnermoran) 
You have heard the guitar? Sounds to me like metal and is made a puzzle .... I do not think any regalo.De Anyway page is well known in Spain and I know that are formal and trusted
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 9 2014 7:57:26
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14819
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Barbero for $4200E?? (in reply to turnermoran) 
Site looks legit. The label says 1948, not 46. The condition looks not so well kept, lots of wear and cracks. That is why the price is lower. In case you have't heard, Spain is in financial crises....these instruments are investments and treasures like gold....time to unload when you need money soon. It is sad when this happens to artists, but it's been going on for years now. Keep eyes open and you can find almost anything pop up....and these sites are turning over guitars quickly and the artists will gravitate to that outlet with trust rather than try their own thing on Ebay or whatever.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 9 2014 13:41:47
 
keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Barbero for $4200E?? (in reply to turnermoran) 
looks like my XP version on my dying laptop did not do a good job in getting me a good look--time to do some major destruction of the motherboard and buy a new laptop. just looked at work with modern software and everything is good. good point ricardo about the problem with spain--the last i heard unemployment was over 20%. i forgot that places elsewhere are not doing well.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 10 2014 21:05:29
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Barbero for $4200E?? (in reply to turnermoran) 
Look through the photos in the slide show. Stop when you get to the one that shows the back of the headstock.

You can see it has been reconstructed at least twice. That head stock has been transplanted on two other guitars. You can see three different kinds of cedar, from two earlier graft operations.

It's very difficult to authenticate something in this condition. The top also looks like it has been sanded and the bridge is either not authentic or it has been refinished. A lot of the pathces a grafts on the body are poorly done. And the label is in bad shape and doe snto have any stamps to prove it went with that body. And they are not showing the neck slipper foot inside the guitar, it should in a best scenario be stamped or show the hand of Barbero.

IM not an expert, but I would run it by R.E. Brune' and Aaron Green to see that they say. The thing it t determine if Barbero are already at the address in 1948 or still finished guitars for others, I'm not clear on the exact timeline but I know who to ask.

It is possible some parts are Barbero and some parts are not. The plantilla is not unlike a Barbero, but it's hard to tell from pictures. The heel of the neck looks like Madrid work from that time period, but without see the inside of the guitar and the foot and the braces it is hard to tell. It could two Barberos cobbled together: A neck grafted on headstock form another on a Barbero body. Or a fake headstock grafted on a beat up Barbero body, or a real Barbero headstock grafted onto a similar guitar like a Viuda de Santos Hernandez, with a worn and torn Barbero label from a wrecked Barbero.

There area lot of possibilities, but one thing is sure, this guitar is a product of two or more guitars that were cannibalized together and one or both might not be a real Barbero.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2014 13:46:49
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Barbero for $4200E?? (in reply to turnermoran) 
Here are the pictures of the back of the neck.

You can see two grafts. Look for the larger Vee shaped graft, easy to see, that is the latest graft.
Then see the semi circle of lighter wood within the vee, that was the first graft.

These two grafts tell us that the headstock has been on three different guitars. The original guitar, the second graft was guitar #2 and the Vee graft is guitar #3.

Or it tells us that the first guitar had the headstock joined with that scarf joint in the neck the semicircular line. That is strange because Santos and Barbero really used a scarf joint right at the headstock. It is difficult to see a line higher up about the level of the nut, but on the back. A line would show the headstock scarf joint, but it is absent.

Lots of unanswered questions.
















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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2014 13:58:28
 
Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Barbero for $4200E?? (in reply to estebanana) 
I was looking at a Les Paul Signature electric in a local vintage guitar shop and I noticed what looked like a repair on the reverse of the neck i.e. the headstock had been re-attached. Snapping headstocks is quite common when gigging, leaving the guitar resting against something and someone leans on it or it falls over.

The shop owner said it had indeed been repaired, but the price was not realistic for such damage and no mention of it on their website. Best to just ask them about any damage and repairs.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2014 16:11:10
 
turnermoran

Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010
 

RE: Barbero for $4200E?? (in reply to turnermoran) 
Hey guys - I much appreciate the diligent responses in regards to the Barbera. My real curiosity though is the general pricing of everything at this place. Waaaay cheaper than Jordie's shop, also in Barcalona area. Like crazy suspicious cheap. Sure, economy in free fall, and sure, a funky Barbero, but as to my question as to if anyone has done business with them, seems like no?
Whereas a few here have said they have bought from Jordi.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2014 17:05:38
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Barbero for $4200E?? (in reply to Escribano) 
quote:

I was looking at a Les Paul Signature electric in a local vintage guitar shop and I noticed what looked like a repair on the reverse of the neck i.e. the headstock had been re-attached. Snapping headstocks is quite common when gigging, leaving the guitar resting against something and someone leans on it or it falls over.

The shop owner said it had indeed been repaired, but the price was not realistic for such damage and no mention of it on their website. Best to just ask them about any damage and repairs.


Good eye.
Gibson electrics are famous for headstock separation. There are repair guys who specialize in that particular repair as they have a jig made to hold the two parts for gluing back together.

That job can be done invisibly by a good repairer. But it is a price compromiser.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 13 2014 0:40:29
 
Cervantes

 

Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: Barbero for $4200E?? (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

In case you have't heard, Spain is in financial crises....these instruments are investments and treasures like gold....time to unload when you need money soon. It is sad when this happens to artists, but it's been going on for years now. Keep eyes open and you can find almost anything pop up....and these sites are turning over guitars quickly and the artists will gravitate to that outlet with trust rather than try their own thing on Ebay or whatever.


This is true 24% unemployement in Spain. So where would I look for a good deal on a spanish guitar? Certainly not this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Manuel-Reyes-Flamenco-Guitar-/110457001850

Is a Barbero, Gerundio, Santos Hernandez, Reyes, etc really a good value or a high priced collectors item? I am sure that they are masterpieces than play and sound incredible, but might a better value be a new or used guitar from a current builder of which there are many to choose from that also look, play and sound incredible without the higher price and worry about repairs? Maybe one reason to buy an older guitar would be that good pieces of wood are becoming more scarce and what was available 50 years might be better than what we can get today.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 17 2014 20:16:41
 
tk

Posts: 524
Joined: Jun. 15 2006
 

RE: Barbero for $4200E?? (in reply to Cervantes) 
You know, maybe that $35K reyes is not a good deal but I thought this 83 blanca is fairly priced by our friend Rdudy in Canada. I am surprised that guitar did not sell by now. Usually they sell for $24 and up in the US.

I know you might get them cheaper in Spain but as Ricardo said, only in spain because of their economic situation.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1983-Manuel-Reyes-Sr-1A-Flamenco-Classical-Guitar-Celebrity-Owned-/271667666519?pt=Guitar&hash=item3f40a79e57

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 17 2014 21:21:57
 
tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

RE: Barbero for $4200E?? (in reply to tk) 
There's a 9-10k euro 1975 reyes in his shop in cordoba, or at least was in february, a great guitar in original condition without cracks. I was planning to buy it but then I came to my senses, I would never pay over 5k euros for a guitar

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 17 2014 21:30:33
 
tk

Posts: 524
Joined: Jun. 15 2006
 

RE: Barbero for $4200E?? (in reply to tele) 
I think $9k for a 75 Reyes is fair. But the 80s and up have different price point

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 17 2014 21:39:44
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