urethane vs french polish

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a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

urethane vs french polish

I have a 69 Ramirez blanca. I have heard that their shop used urethane for a while after about 1967, but I don't know that for sure. My finish LOOKS thin and the grain shows through, but how do I determine what my guitar's finish is? Is there a solvent test I can try on an inconspicuous spot? I know alcohol will mobilize shellac but not oil-based varnish, and not urethane. . . any advice?

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"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2014 0:47:17

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: urethane vs french polish (in reply to a_arnold)

I would not try to use any solvents on your guitar. But if you have thin areas it can be touched up with some French polishing. Shellac sticks to nearly everything for touch up work.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2014 1:00:16

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: urethane vs french polish (in reply to estebanana)

Thanks, Stephen, but I meant that the finish looked thin, not thick and heavy like many urethane-finished guitars. It doesn't need touchup. I just want to know if it is a real finish or a urethane one.

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"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2014 1:13:05

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: urethane vs french polish (in reply to a_arnold)

Most factory guitars have really thick polyurethane finish but some are VERY thin too... to the point of being easily dented.

Look on the neck joint area and where the fretboard meets the soundboard. Usually there will be a slight (or not so slight) kind of haze from expansion and contraction of the wood.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2014 1:56:16

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: urethane vs french polish (in reply to a_arnold)

I have a '67 Ramirez blanca, which my wife bought new and gave to me. All I have to go on is memory, but when new the guitar's finish seemed thicker than it does now after all these years. The surface as I remember it was shinier and more uniform. Now the finish conforms a little to the grain of the cedar top. The finish seems harder as well.

I'm not familiar with the details of catalyzed polyurethane finishes, but many resin formulations contain volatile compounds which slowly evaporate over the years.

Jose Ramirez III used catalyzed polyurethane finishes consistently. I suppose it may have been possible to order a french polished guitar, but I have never seen one from the time he ran the business. I bought from the shop in Madrid and imported into the USA a dozen or so 1a classicals during the 1970s.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2014 19:43:37

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: urethane vs french polish (in reply to a_arnold)

It is a thinly veiled truth that almost every kind of finish will 'shink in' over the years.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2014 0:26:13

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: urethane vs french polish (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

It is a thinly veiled truth that almost every kind of finish will 'shink in' over the years.

But would that thinly veiled truth apply to the rarified atmosphere one finds in the Jernigan Suite at the Emperador?

Sorry, perhaps this has been discussed in greater depth, but I departed Samoa a day ago and have been in-flight since. Am overnighting in San Francisco and took advantage of the opportunity
to check in with the Foro and read this post. Is it not possible that the Emperador has the unique capability to maintain things in place, with no deterioration or shrinkage? Would not the long-ago
dancing Moroccan society ladies with scarves tied around their hips be linked to the thinly finished (if not veiled) urethane on guitars? If the guitars and the Moroccan ladies had resided at the Emperador
all these years, would either have aged and shrunk? Would the scarves still fit around their hips and the urethane still be as thick?

Stephen, while having dinner this evening at Scoma's I thought about heading to the Edinburgh Pub for a couple of ales, but I decided not to follow up on the idea, as it would not be the same
without your scintillating presence to complete the evening.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2014 4:47:04

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: urethane vs french polish (in reply to BarkellWH)

quote:

ut would that thinly veiled truth apply to the rarified atmosphere one finds in the Jernigan Suite at the Emperador?

Sorry, perhaps this has been discussed in greater depth, but I departed Samoa a day ago and have been in-flight since. Am overnighting in San Francisco and took advantage of the opportunity
to check in with the Foro and read this post. Is it not possible that the Emperador has the unique capability to maintain things in place, with no deterioration or shrinkage? Would not the long-ago
dancing Moroccan society ladies with scarves tied around their hips be linked to the thinly finished (if not veiled) urethane on guitars? If the guitars and the Moroccan ladies had resided at the Emperador
all these years, would either have aged and shrunk? Would the scarves still fit around their hips and the urethane still be as thick?

Stephen, while having dinner this evening at Scoma's I thought about heading to the Edinburgh Pub for a couple of ales, but I decided not to follow up on the idea, as it would not be the same
without your scintillating presence to complete the evening.

Bill

Bill,

That was damned Hoyle of you to forestall going to Edinburg Castle, next time we meet in SF we will hoist a few rounds to Ronnie.

As for the Jernigan Suite, I think the action of shinkage is the opposite of the physical reactions objects undergo if they reside in this most elevated wing of the Emperador. Be it guitar neck, or the fine waist wear of Moroccan ladies in waiting, shrinkage is the last action that comes to mind. In fact the re-engorgement of any shrunken membrane, be it urethane or organic can be effected by an overnight stay in the Jernigan Suite, the most potent and rare of luxury accommodations.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 9 2014 1:10:21