RE: SOLEA ACCOMPANIMENT CHALLENGE!!!!!!

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guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: SOLEA ACCOMPANIMENT CHALLENGE!!!!!! (in reply to Leñador)

What is also tough is that if a singer is sensitive to the accompanist and the accompanist to the singer then the dialogue between them will point towards substitutions and alterations and they will be different each time.

I have this crazy idea that without a live singer you cannot practice accompaniment without singing yourself and exploring the options that way.

Sorry that was insincere I'll try again. If you want to practice accompaniment without a singer then YOU are going to need to sing.

But .............

This is not a chore this is a joy.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 3 2014 20:33:07

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: SOLEA ACCOMPANIMENT CHALLENGE!!!!!! (in reply to Leñador)

I don't think palmas are absolutely needed but they are a good pointer

If palmas are needed, there are palmas and examples in the oscar herrero accompanying for solea series, I don't know , could we use his cante tracks perhaps? They are at least made for practicing accompanying guitarists...
here:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leñador

quote:

That would be nice and basic, also maybe a choice from two or several soleas, for example one in por medio and one in por arriba. You can then even maybe post a sample video to show an example to those unfamiliar with accompanying I think there are too few lessons on accompanying for beginners online

The tough part of this is finding nice acapella cante tracks with palmas......
I'm happy to post a "road map" video for this challenge but my cante accompaniment skills are pretty sh&t so I don't think I have any business posting "how to" cante accompany videos to the world. lol
If someone doesn't directly teach me how to play for a letra it take me a while to figure out...........

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 3 2014 20:33:41

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: SOLEA ACCOMPANIMENT CHALLENGE!!!!!! (in reply to guitarbuddha)

I think I have that as a sound file at home......It's a good one. Except I hate the african drum and cymbal........and the palmas are super flat.....but for learning I think a good one.

I don't think a beginner to accompaniment would ever be able to follow a letra without some sort of click track/palmas...........

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 3 2014 20:54:14

johnnefastis

Posts: 631
Joined: Jan. 10 2012

RE: SOLEA ACCOMPANIMENT CHALLENGE!!!!!! (in reply to guitarbuddha)

Hi,

I think its a great idea for a challenge but probably too long and too difficult without a singer and dancer. Doing cante without baile would work though.

I have the Manolo Franco CD and DVD, We could maybe get away with just the audio track from that ( it has percussion and Cante solo ). I am not sure whether it would be legal. Maybe we could contact them.

I still like the idea for the Buleria compas challenge. 2 minutes no falsettas.

A challenge is needed. Good luck.

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 3 2014 20:58:00

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: SOLEA ACCOMPANIMENT CHALLENGE!!!!!! (in reply to guitarbuddha)

quote:

ORIGINAL: guitarbuddha

What is also tough is that if a singer is sensitive to the accompanist and the accompanist to the singer then the dialogue between them will point towards substitutions and alterations and they will be different each time.

I have this crazy idea that without a live singer you cannot practice accompaniment without singing yourself and exploring the options that way.

Sorry that was insincere I'll try again. If you want to practice accompaniment without a singer then YOU are going to need to sing.

But .............

This is not a chore this is a joy.

D.

Have you played for a flamenco singer?

In my experience it's our job as a guitarist to follow the singer and whatever he feels like doing. If the guitarists wants the singer to do something by his playing or looks on his face that would not work in my opinion. The other way around it works just as it should.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 3 2014 23:41:20

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: SOLEA ACCOMPANIMENT CHALLENGE!!!!!! (in reply to tele)

Yawn.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 3 2014 23:46:13

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: SOLEA ACCOMPANIMENT CHALLENGE!!!!!! (in reply to guitarbuddha)

quote:

ORIGINAL: guitarbuddha

Yawn.

I am sorry you're tired.
Something more constuctive please?

I just would like to know that by who and why it is "thought" that alterations and substitutions are result of both sensitivity of the singer to the accompanist and accompanist to the singer and not only created by the way the singer feels like singing which to me is the case in flamenco.
Also a live singer is great to have for practicing but in palos like solea video lessons can be enough to learn the art IMO

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 4 2014 9:47:08

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: SOLEA ACCOMPANIMENT CHALLENGE!!!!!! (in reply to Leñador)

The vast majority of baile these days has almost zero room for true improvisation of any kind, so in theory the basis of this challenge is just fine. I have in fact been hired on occasion to simply record what I play for a specific choreography so that the dancer can just dance to my playing via Ipod or CD at low paying gigs or exhibitions or classes that I couldn't attend myself. Indeed I am bent on inventing a 'hologram' of myself with specific choreographies for rent, so that I might be projected and "perform" at gigs when I am double booked. (

).

Anyway, the problem with the challenge as it lies here is you don't have a specific choreography. That means you can only do a standard bare bones blue print type of accompaniment, which I have to admit as something to listen to would be quite boring or tedious for listeners. (lot of chord strumming going nowhere as it is just providing the base framework). The shortest length of time I can envision for a "short" but complete solea dance will be 7-10 minutes. I once did a 5 minute rehearsal for a 25 minute single dance performance of solea. The reason it worked like that is because in rehearsal we simply talked about the structure and then I demonstrated a few falsetas for the different section, of which she picked two she wanted me to use. Another example was that video of Fanny Ara dancing solea....the only thing we practiced (at sound check) was the opening llamada that had a stop. The rest was evolved on stage live. But WITHOUT the dancer there, try to imagine if we just recorded the guitar part of that 15 minute dance.

Anyway, some other points coming up in this thread regarding the cante accompaniment....well, hello guys we already have that 25 page cante accompaniment practice thread that contains tons of examples of solea minus guitar plus various members versions. Lot of work went into that so please take a look there at the solea stuff before arguing about using Herrero tracks or palmas/create your own audacity track etc...

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 4 2014 15:29:17

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: SOLEA ACCOMPANIMENT CHALLENGE!!!!!! (in reply to guitarbuddha)

The Herero stuff is in there, that's where I got it.......

I already said it was gunna be boring to listen to lol
Maybe just intro falseta, llamada, letra, falseta, end. That'd be like 3-4 minutes....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 4 2014 16:29:26

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: SOLEA ACCOMPANIMENT CHALLENGE!!!!!! (in reply to guitarbuddha)

Well I'm going to do mine with a dancer so I will probably beat all you clowns with your imaginary baile...

Maybe part of the challenge is to find a dancer somewhere in your area to collaborate with? I think that's kind of cool actually.

The purpose of the challenges is to bring you out of your comfort zone and try to do something new and different, and this would push people to try to make a real connection that could turn into future collaboration.

And for people that think they're isolated from any flamenco scene, I live in Cortland, NY. Google it. It's the middle of nowhere.

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Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 4 2014 17:26:21

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: SOLEA ACCOMPANIMENT CHALLENGE!!!!!! (in reply to guitarbuddha)

I'll see your 1 dancer and up you 4! Lolol jk we can stick to 1.
Would anybody other then us be able & willing???

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 4 2014 17:41:19

estebanana

Posts: 9354
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: SOLEA ACCOMPANIMENT CHALLENGE!!!!!! (in reply to guitarbuddha)

So WTF is happening? I have an extra guitar right now and I might join in just to humiliate myself.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2014 7:05:12

estebanana

Posts: 9354
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: SOLEA ACCOMPANIMENT CHALLENGE!!!!!! (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

And for people that think they're isolated from any flamenco scene, I live in Cortland, NY. Google it. It's the middle of nowhere.

You ain't got no idea about the middle of nowhere. NY? HA!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2014 7:06:32

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: SOLEA ACCOMPANIMENT CHALLENGE!!!!!! (in reply to Leñador)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 10 2014 17:53:33

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: SOLEA ACCOMPANIMENT CHALLENGE!!!!!! (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Nada mas?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2014 21:05:04

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: SOLEA ACCOMPANIMENT CHALLENGE!!!!!! (in reply to guitarbuddha)

I thought this idea was cool. Has the momentum died? Something like this is exactly what I need to tear me away from stumbling though solos that are too hard for me. It's a long time that I didn't have a chance to accompany dance or cante - so I'd be well stoked if this thing went ahead.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 17 2014 17:09:21